Dieter3

I don't actually have a book about these, so thanks for that info!!!

I just picked up a 5th class Sacred Treasure with Rosette and box for $180 and I was the only bidder! After the auction ended, I thought maybe there was something wrong with it and I didn't see it, but so far that doesn't seem to be the case...other than a little visible staining on the fabric. It wasn't a steal by any means, but I feel like I got a pretty good deal. Thoughts?

Yes, to what Tim has already said - this case is in my opinion a post-war case and rosette, and and earlier medal. The kanji styling used on the cases for all of the awards that I have seen that have this type of mirror is totally different. The one post-war example of the 5th class that I have is identical to yours.

Here's what I think the case and rosette should look like - I believe the earlier awards used the same rosette for the 5th and 6th class, not totally sure on that though - anyone?

But right case or wrong case, the one you got is still beautiful!!!!

Kinda makes me think a seller (if he or she HAS the time to wait) should start with higher prices and just stick it out until somebody comes along for it....??

It must just be the timing, and that's totally unpredictable of course!

A good condition, but far from extraordinary Manchurian Incident medal - $113.50 on eBay a few days back......yikes!!

Again, I can't question the motives of buyers....but....but......really?

HA! I wish it were mine! Not so though. What I do is collect pictures from auctions for comparison purposes. Alas, these are super-hard to find with matched documents which would provide the best basis of comparison provided they are truly matched. Some of this I've been able to figure out to an extent (not so much in the case of Kites though!) as to what medals truly belong to which periods - granted, this is based solely on medals with documents, and then finding more of the "same" medals with like-era documents - enough examples and obviously you can start making at least good generalizations.

Still, this is tough to do since medals with documents are generally harder to find, and then you definitely have the situations of sellers mixing medals, cases, and rosettes in what are clearly perverted combinations of things! And of course documents that are clearly not matched to documents. (I got a clearly Showa 7th class Kite with a Meiji 39th year document - being sold as "matched" - DUH!) I feel bad for people that don't know better, I personally didn't care since I wanted both anyway and the price was O.K. - but that the seller would actual make such a claim, especially from a very experienced one that would certainly know better! Not cool - But i'm digressing....)

Definitely an interesting area of research, makes things definitely more fun and interesting in my opinion, having some element of mystery and the unknown to it!

But what I'm wondering is how definitive were design changes as they relate to period changes, you know what I mean? Could there have been overlap on design from period to period, or within a period?

Here's one that makes me wonder: Roundel is present (hard to see in this pic., but magnified it is clearly there) and the wings appear different (looks like wing tip bent down on 2nd or 3rd feather?), yet this case bears the same styling of kanji as the other Showa piece (which I believe to be an earlier style) - this makes me believe it may have been very early Showa, or late Taisho as a transitional....?? No?? Or possibly the wrong medal in the wrong case?

Me is confus-ed.

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2011/post-6375-0-83652500-1298667889.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2011/post-6375-0-42482600-1298667899.jpg

Well, first a slight correction is due. That auction was not a Meiji era 6th class Kite, it was a Showa era example. I'll post a couple of PIC's below to verify that. The Meiji style is different.

Price was way too high IMO, considering condition and like others noted, compared to other examples selling on eBay. It was just a case of a couple of bidders that had to have it and cost was apparently not a concern. The third highest bidder (out of 14 total) quit at $385. which was still a bit high, but certainly closer to what these have been selling for. I guess when you really want it...

There will be better examples for sale down the road.

Tim

If I had to wager a guess, I might say that is an early Showa piece, possibly a late Taisho - thoughts???

Gavin,

I think that is a fair price for the quality, I'm sure you'll be pleased with it! I have seen several go for about half that, maybe a bit more in recent months that were decent, but not anywhere near as nice as the one I think you got.

To what Brian said, yeah - there are just weird things that happen at auction. Same thing has happened to me where I come across a neat item, figuring everybody and their brother is going to bid on it, and I end up being the only one, for what I felt were good prices. I guess it really depends on who want what and when. I think a lot of it is just the luck of the draw! Maddening I tell you!

In my opinion, yes. But that's just my opinion!! There's a LOT of stuff that sells on eBay that is far from nice for waaaaaay too much money. If it was pristine - sure, might justify that price. Granted, there don't seem to be nearly as many of these older ones as there are later ones. A Taisho Enthronement document went last week for $130.00 and in less than fair condition in my opinion. I don't think there was anything unique about it or the recipient, but perhaps there was. I think though it was a case of "noobie-itis". (These people would poop themselves 90% of the time if they knew how much these sell for in Japan after they pay these heavy prices!)

Still - I've learned to not question the motives of buyers, they've got their reasons. And if they've got the money, more power to them; congrats to the sellers - no fault to them for making good money provided it is an otherwise honest sale! God knows I've paid way over average price for several pieces I own because I HAD to have it THEN. Or there was some feature to it that set it apart for me, so I was willing to pay a heftier price. An item after all is simply worth what one is willing to pay for it! Got a picture of the piece?

I will check that out! I did email Dan King too, he suggested it could be a stylized cherry blossom. Could be, but I'll investigate town and regional symbol possibilities too, good suggestion!

Just landed a silver with the lapel pin and its box. Pretty nice shape overall, now I think I can be done with these!

No worries on the shop!! Standing by!!

On your medals and cases - the second one, without the enamel reverse, belongs to that case. It is a post-war medal.

If I understand correctly, there are also medals with un-enameled reverse and unpolished that are apparently late-war era pieces. Need somebody else to confirm this though. I've only seen one of these for sale that I can recall, and I don't remember what kind of case it was in. :sleep:

For what it's worth, it was given to an army chief nurse, 2nd Infantry Regiment (written on the bottom, but that's it!) - I suspect this is not a medical symbol though! Perhaps a military one?

Rich, Paul (or anybody!) - Any idea on what this motif represents? Is it military?

Correct! I do have one of these docs. as well from 1940, and the case of the medal that came with it does indeed have silver writing.

Oh, I'm far from an expert!! There are several people here that have waaaaay more experience than I do, not to mention they've handled huge numbers of these pieces. Comparatively, I have very few awards and far less handling experience. What I do though is watch auctions very carefully, examine the pictures and catalog them, and then compare them, noting the differences and trends in construction and design in an attempt to build a larger overall historical picture. It's tough, but it makes collecting all the more enjoyable! ;)

Hi Gavin,

The cases can tell you a lot about the age (well, of at least the case!) - the style of the kanji for one, the use of gold vs. silver writing (silver being associated with the WWII time frame, late 30's on), the 7th and 8th may be found in plastic cases without a clasp mechanism too, all post-war. The mirror in the center tends to be larger on earlier awards too. Of course the lapel rosettes are indicative of age as well, bow vs. button, and there are obvious differences in the buttons too that seem to correlate with when a piece was produced. I wouldn't use wear, tarnishing, or soiling as an indicator, maybe a crude guideline!

Thanks!!

It really can be tough - I pretty have had to shoot at angles for the reasons you mention - glare off the lacquer boxes (wood is pretty easy though!) and I just can't get anything but a dim picture otherwise. 90% of the pics are done in macro mode, so I'm really close up and the pics. are too dim if they are taken from right above - but my camera seems to prefer macro. Again, probably just me having no clue as to how to really use a camera! When using macro, I don't use a flash. I can get fair pics. using flash and non-macro, but the pictures yellow out a lot and the flash on my camera is horrible unless at across-the-room distances, likes to halo things. It's a great outdoor camera though. Canon IXY800, I think it's 6MP.

I appreciate the compliments, but I sure wish other people would show some stuff, I'm gettin' lonely....!! (and runnin' out of good stuff!) :lol:

It does - it really caught my eye in the auction pics. and it met my expectations!

Not sure on the translation exactly, but I'd guess this is a temple (shrine?) badge of some sort. I always get shrines and temples confused, but the symbol is associated with one or the other, maybe both - though I'm used to seeing it appear flipped the other way, not the way shown on the badge. Have to let somebody else really tell you about this, sorry!

Thanks Tim, you are too kind - I'm really not happy with my pics. at all! It's a combo of a not-so-great indoor camera, more so ME and my photo-incompetence , and the horrible lighting in our house, especially during winter! It literally takes me upwards of 30-40 pics. before I find one that is actually reasonably focused and bright enough! (Thank God for digital cameras....)

Far from perfect, but not damaged, some ribbon soiling is all: