Dieter3

005. Set of four

1. Order of the Rising Sun

2. Order of the Sacred Treasure

3. Order of the Golden Kite (wrong place???)

4. Red Cross Medal/Order of Merit

I am not 100% sure about the combination – can these two first awards on it indicate that the owner of this set was combat person? Especially Order of the Sacred Treasure entitlements are not known to me. Can it be more for long service award?

Any feedback of these sets would be great.

Also if any of you have some another type of Japanese ribbon bars to share, please post them up!

Thanks for sharing!! I'm no expert on ribbon bars, but I think you are right - this 5th bar would have been a military award with the Golden Kite, and if I understand correctly the Rising Sun here would be the highest class of order followed by the Sacred Treasure, and lastly the GK. (EX: 5th class Rising Sun, 6th Class Sacred Treasure, 7th Class Golden Kite). And again, I think you're right - length of service can be a criteria for the Sacred Treasure. The Rising Sun preceding the Sacred Treasure could also indicate that they'd be the same class - and these would have to be at least 6th class to top out the Golden Kite.

You should check out Rich Catalano's new medals eBook (part II) as it has a nice explanation about the order and the wearing of ribbon bars.

I'd really hope anybody that was willing to plop down that kind of cash did their homework extensively before buying something of such a price!!!

But all this said, what the heck is it? Is it a toy or something of that nature?

What can anybody tell the forum about this interesting piece - legit? Seller is correct on theories? Is it against the rules to post live auctions? If so - please feel free to delete and let me know we can't do this.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390235002907&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123#ht_1023wt_1139

One on Yahoo Japan earlier this year went for ¥158,000 with case and lapel rosette, I think the ribbon was a replacement, but it was very good overall condition. Another in good condition with case and rosette went for ¥201,000. A complete piece this last month in good shape and complete went for ¥102,005. This one for over $2000? Well, I think things just kinda go up and down over the short haul. I've seen some very basic items sell for way more than they normally do, and some really nice pieces that I kick myself for not buying as the final price was just too low for what the thing was!! You gotta look at the buyer in the high cases - noobism often seems to be a factor. :lol:

On later pieces, the cases without the clasps, are these both of wood or plastic, or just plastic?

FANTASTIC!!

Mike will be at the Japanese Sword Show in Burlingame the 19th of August. If you can make it, I will be happy to introduce you to him he is sn old friend. I will also be with him at the OMSA convention earlier this month. Will you be going?

Richard

Sounds good!! Would love an introduction!! Alas, won't be able to make it to the OMSA convention, I actually have to work that weekend, Fri.Sat., no way I can get out of it.

Richard, sorry no pics., I didn't save any and I've since deleted the auction, I just use them to gather data.

Rich/Alex - Thanks for that info! Good to know. I wasn't planning on buying, but if I ever do in the future, will at least know he's a good guy.

I just thought it odd that both auctions were nearly identical, if not the same and that both were purchased by a private ID.

I'd imagine several of you have seen these recently - 3rd Class Pillars of State order, 2 of them, one yesterday, one about a month ago - both eBay sales. Single bidders/buyer - both listed as PRIVATE - I can't swear that the two pieces were identical because I just don't remember the other one - but both had replacement ribbons (stated in the sales), and very similar wear and dings. Anybody familiar with these pieces? Does something just not seem right about these?

JGUNTAI

So, the Japanese characters on the bottom left of the "Z" flag spell MIKASA.

Dean

You can buy the Mikasa flags:

http://www.kinenkan-mikasa.or.jp/shopping/index.html

Sorry it's taking so long to get all of this info posted! Red Cross medals are the last category for the Japanese medals that I'm doing. These present somewhat of a challenge due to the large amount of variation across the member levels. I've only thus far analyzed basic membership medals and was surprised to see how relatively few of these show up on Yahoo! Japan compared to eBay. Granted, I'm only focused on solo pieces, not groups, but I don't think that would change things much anyway. Curiously, very few solo documents show up on eBay. Although I did try to keep track of the types of boxes, hallmarks, and materials used in construction, I did not really organize this in an easy way to make it presentable as data. About the only thing I can say is that earlier awards are definitely uncommon if not downright rare to find.

Red Cross – Membership

Totals

Medals = 136 (Y!JA=21; eBay=115)

Documents = 15 (Y!JA=9; eBay=6)

Ratio of men's to women's awards, approximately 5:1

Medal/Document Combos = 6 (Y!JA = 1; eBay = 5)

1 x Document and medal, no case or rosette - $22.49/Good(-)

1 x Document and medal w/case, no rosette - $38.00/Fair(+)

1 x Document and medal w/case, no rosette - $51.00

1 x Document and medal w/case and rosette - ¥1,700/Good

1 x Document and medal w/case and rosette - $36.00/Good

1 x Document and medal w/case and rosette - $81.00/Good(-)

Solo Documents = 9 (Y!JA = 8; eBay=1), 7 Men's, 2 Women's

Overall Average Price/Condition = ¥1,088; $13.50 – Condition = Good

Highest Price/Condition = ¥2,900/Good(+); $13.50/Good(-)

Lowest Price/Condition = ¥500/Good; $13.50/Very Good(-)

Solo Men's Medals = 109 (Y!JA = 16; eBay = 93)

Overall Average Price/Condition = ¥559; $12.24 – Condition = Good

53 x Without Case, Without Rosette** = ¥425 / $11.26; Average Condition = Good(-)

11 x Without Case, With Rosette = ¥320 / $9.54; Average Condition = Good

2 x With Wrong Case (No rosettes) = ¥600 / $5.99; Average Condition = Fair

10 x With Case, Without Rosette** = ¥767 / $12.90; Average Condition = Good(-)

33 x With Case, With Rosette = ¥605 / $15.07; Average Condition = Good(+)

**Specifically, without the member's bow. Some may have had others, most typically the life membership rosette.

High/Low Price & Condition

Without Case, Without Rosette

Highest Price/Condition = ¥500/Fair; $26.00/Fair

Lowest Price/Condition = ¥350/Fair(+); $0.99/Fair

Without Case, With Rosette

Highest Price/Condition = ¥600/Fair; $14.50/Very Good

Lowest Price/Condition = ¥100/Good(-); $5.74/Good(+)

With Wrong Case (No Rosettes, 2 specimen only)

1 x Medal in wooden case - $5.99/Poor

1 x Medal in China Incident Case - ¥600/Good

With Case, Without Rosette

Highest Price/Condition = ¥=1,000/Poor(+); $20.50/Good(+)

Lowest Price/Condition = ¥300/Fair; $5.50/Fair

With Case, With Rosette

Highest Price/Condition = ¥1,152/Good(+); $38.00/Fair(+)

Lowest Price/Condition = ¥100/Very Good; $4.99/Excellent(-)

Best Deal - $4.99/Excellent(-) (medal with case and rosette)

Worst Deal - $26.00/Fair (Medal with no case, no rosette)

Solo Women's Medals = 21 (Y!JA = 4; eBay = 17)

Overall Average Price/Condition = ¥1,100; $13.95 – Condition = Good(-)

10 x Without Case, Without Rosette = ¥1,900 / $12.79; Average Condition = Good(-)

2 x Without Case, With Rosette = $14.45; Average Condition = Good(-)

4 x With Case, Without Rosette = ¥1,000 / $15.97; Average Condition = Good(-)

5 x With Case, With Rosette = ¥750/ $15.09; Average Condition = Good

High/Low Price & Condition

Without Case, Without Rosette

Highest Price/Condition = ¥1,900/Fair; $17.00/Good

Lowest Price/Condition = ¥1,900/Fair; $6.50/Good(-)

Without Case, With Rosette

Highest Price/Condition = $14.99/Good(+)

Lowest Price/Condition = $13.90/Fair

With Case, Without Rosette

Highest Price/Condition = ¥=1,000/Good; $28.00/Good(-)

Lowest Price/Condition = ¥1,000/Good; $7.50/Good(-)

With Case, With Rosette

Highest Price/Condition = ¥1,000/Good; $18.00/Good(-)

Lowest Price/Condition = ¥500/Good(+); $12.27/Good(-)

Best Deal - ¥500/Good(+) (Medal with case and rosette)

Worst Deal - ¥1,900/Fair (Medal with no case, no rosette)

Was there ever a bow done for the Korean Annexation medal??

Hi Rich,

Tons of questions and desires for a new work. I know Paul is working on something as well, but I don't know the exact content and level of detail. Can you give us a verbal preview of the content??

Some of the things I am very interested in include a summary of hallmarks and proofs used on the various awards - and to extend this, more information about the Osaka mint and any other sub-contracted makers of awards. I'm also very keen on subtle manufacturing differences among awards, and there are obviously many - EX: The China Incident medal with a flat bar vs. rounded bar on the backside - but I want to see this in pictures, not merely written description. Same deal with cases - I want to see them in COLOR. Sure, more expensive if your printing it, no cost for an eBook though. Black and white while practical, simply does no justice to the beauty of the awards. While it may not matter to a lot of folks, I really enjoy learning about the actual construction and materials utilized to build things - I'm sure you have encountered a LOT of stuff - and messed up stuff that has given you insight into how things were assembled, etc. I'm fascinated by this type of thing, certainly less critical in the grand scheme of things though.

Also, better definition on specific differences and roughly when changes occurred - mostly applies to orders - but a great example is the Rising Sun - when exactly did the two columns of kanji change to one, when did gold change to silver, etc., etc. - I think a lot of folks have an idea about this, but it has never been enumerated in an English work that I know of and the lone Japanese language one that I have - well, I simply haven't read it! (Ahem, had it translated for me..... )

Numbers of awards issued of course, as best they can be told - would be great if folks could chime in and provide data on actual document numbers and dates to get some sense of what was issued and the rough time period, how those numbers evolved with time.

I'm not sure if you are familiar with Japanese firearms at all, but there are several very detailed works on them - this is what the Japanese medal world needs - something along that level of detail as best it can relate. The Medals and Orders of Japan book is a good primer, and reference, but it falls short on the details in my opinion. I suppose this really depends on your target audience though - who are you aiming at?? Beginning collector, advanced, everyone?? How soon are you planning to release it??

A small section on oddities might be neat too - seeing that "female" Boxer Rebellion medal in taquito22's post made me think about that - maybe not official, but neat nonetheless! The Japanese bayonet books go into this sort of thing in some measure of detail - war souvenirs, GI custom jobbies, etc., etc. - maybe incorporated into a section about fakes and repros!!!????

If I think of anything else, I'll let you know.

I wonder if maybe it was repaired at some point, could the reverse have been re-plated and the ring of jewels maybe reattached with screws for some reason??? I know, highly unlikely, just a thought. I wouldn't think even a more recent replica or fake would have cracked enamel...???

Of the documents in my collection, it appears that war medal documents do not bear watermarks until the Manchurian Incident. These and the China Incident do. Don't have a Nomonhan document, so don't know.

The Taisho and Showa Enthronement docs. have them as do the 2600th year anniversary docs., the 1st Nat'l Census and WWI Victory Commemoration do not seem to have them. Though my collection is small, there may be exceptions????

Like Paul said, the larger ones for orders all seem to have them.

The screws made me think it was a later piece like the pretty commonly seen 4th, 5th, and 6ths with screws. Does that make any sense?

Well, whatever the case, somebody paid the near $1000.00 price tag for it!

I've not seen many of these, but the screws on the breast star seem inconsistent with the rivets on the medallion. Of the ones I've observed, the stars have also had the rivets in the same style as the medallions. I just don't know enough about them on that hinge thing though. Of the few I've seen, they do not have that same style. If I had to hazard a guess, they may very well be authentic, but perhaps the they are not matched - maybe the breast star is a later piece, and the medallion an earlier one?

Interiors different too:

Two new arrivals, provide a nice contrast of two distinctly different boxes. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the left side one to be later and the right side one to be an earlier style....?? Neither of these has gilt as nice as the above one, but the one on the right is really weak - were it not for the box, it'd easily be passed for a silver one I think:

Here it is sitting next to another one - notice the smaller size. The other one also has a dull cast, not bright at all - but not tarnished. It must be aluminum though. Would I be correct in guessing that they were not polished as a time saving step? I'm guessing the unpolished one is earlier? The box somewhat different in the covering, but I don't have a good pic. of that just yet:

New arrival, and making a few assumptions:

I'm guessing that this is a rather late production piece? Definitely aluminum, really bright, polished. The frame is held together with staples rather than nails, and is somewhat smaller in height than others I have. Condition of the case in and out is really nice making me think this wasn't sitting around for too long and I think this is the later style box. Metal tabs on the back of the frame are also smaller and lack much corrosion. Came with a small aluminum special membership plaque with double backed tape. No idea if this really came with the award or not, but it must be more modern. Any ideas or confirmation of my guesswork??

Rich, those cases are super interesting, especially the one at the very top of the page!

Merit Medal of the Yellow Ribbon

Totals

Medals = 0

Documents = 0