Dieter3

Yeah, these pictures aren't quite so nice, the enamel looks O.K., but to me once you replace a ribbon, it's not original anymore, even if the ribbon is original. I'd hate to destroy a nice lower class medal to harvest the ribbon. I'd just replace the ribbon with a new production one and let it be just that. This one is pricey too, I'd honestly be surprised if they got that initial price for it. Hey, some people will pay a lot of money for stuff though - as you well know in the Arisaka world!! I've not one in my possession, but I have seen several Kites for sale infinitely better, and cheaper than this one.

If this sellers thinks this is "extremely fine", then I've got some to sell that would qualify as 3, or 4x better than mint manufacture! Seriously, there's gotta be a realistic, uniform grading system for these items, yeah? Personally, I'd rank this piece as Poor, maybe Poor+, but what do I know?

Good Lord. Some of the things you see for sale, well, they are what they are - people aren't all that stupid when it comes to stuff like this, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, etc., etc., but some things just make me laugh. Comments were made in another thread about items for sale being labeled as "rare" when they are not - to add to that, it just gets me when things are advertised in conditions they are not - this item is currently being sold as "extremely fine condition" for a rather high starting price.

Like I said, any idiot can see otherwise, but I'd hate to see the seller's definition of "poor condition".....gimme a break!! This kind of thing just kills me. So, what sorts of things get your goat???

And rather than start a new thread, just add it here:

Merry Christmas, and Happy Boxing Day to all you blokes!!!

:beer:

Alas, there is no documentation to support anything. A good point on the Sacred Treasure ribbon! Thank you for confirming my original suspicion!

Thanks Rich! That explains the prices! It's not often you see docs. going for that kind of coin, so they stand out for sure.

This 110K upload limit is killing me....

Apologies to Paul - not trying to hijack your original thread - please feel free to relocate these posts as you see fit!

How about these? The Sacred Treasure went for ¥119,000 (about $1300 U.S.) and the Rising sun went for ¥359,000 (about $3900.00) YIKES! - so somebody help me with the significance of either the recipient or the relationship of these items to the text in the auctions which was:

★勲六等瑞宝章勲記飛行第64戦隊隼戦闘隊★軍神★

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古いものです

ヨゴレヤケ折れシワシミ有

本物保証

Other状態、内容は写真でご判断ください

飛行第64戦隊隼戦闘隊関連のお品です

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解る方よろしくお願いします

Something to do with the 64th Fighter Squadron (?) -

What would you wager on authenticity vs. replica??

I will pay closer attention to the assorted auctions and look for the reverse as well as the text of the auctions. I don't have any pics. of the reverse of the two above unfortunately!

How about this one? I bought this one at auction - I was somewhat suspicious of it being authentic - the ribbons just seemed too nice. But I went for it anyway, I thought it was an attractive representation and it had a Boxer ribbon on it, no idea how common these are.

The seller did claim it to be used and antique. (used is easy to claim, antique - perhaps if you don't know any better!?). In a separate auction by the same seller was a set of medals that match everything on the bar (but missing the red cross medal). Why sell separately? No idea. Anyway, no way I could afford to buy the whole medal set, though it looked pretty nice.

After receiving it, it looks fairly authentic but I'm just not sure - there is some light soiling, but almost zero wear to the ribbons, and they all look just too similar. PLUS - the swing arm thingie just looks too new, shiny, and chromey. If I had to guess, I'd say that it was perhaps an authentic holder, but maybe with a bit of doctoring and a replacement of at least some of the bars, perhaps by the original owner, to "freshen" it up. What also doesn't make sense is that this would seem to span a long career going from Boxer Rebellion to 2600th year anniversary? 40 years?? I guess that's possible. Also missing WWI ribbons, not sure if that is significant or not.

SO...I'm looking for expert opinions on this one. Sorry for the less than stellar pics., but my camera, house lighting, and skill are sub-par. Here's the bar:

Here is a pic. of the medals sold separately:

The mummed cases appear to be lacquered wood, what do you think?? I've never actually had the opportunity to handle one! Here are two different pieces:

I didn't actually read the text of that auction - did the seller indicate case material? I guess the easiest way to find out would be to send a question! I'm curious, I'll do that later if I remember to do so.

It is unfortunate when groups are broken up, and it happens more often than not. Yeah, business is business, but it's too bad there isn't a bit more respect for the historical aspect. I collect Japanese bayonets too and some sellers part the bayonets and the scabbards in an attempt to make more money by selling separately. Totally lame. I've also observed several instances of the opposite, of sellers putting items together, medals and documents clearly acquired separately then resold as a "match".

Yes, I've seen that one. It appears to have an unwatered ribbon, best I can tell from the pics. - I've noted in the few I've seen - the unwatered ribbons seem to come in the black cases with the mum on it. All of the others I've seen are watered ribbons and in mumless cases, either black plastic or kiri wood. Granted, this is only from a handful of observations!

I was able to get three award documents given to the same soldier, Sacred Treasure 8th class, Manchurian Incident, and China Incident. The seller had broken them up, I guess to try and make some more ducats, and did one of those cover the name things in the pics, but it was pretty obvious they were to the same soldier. (I really hate that, but I understand why sellers do it, it's business after all.) Anyway, wouldn't have normally bought them like that, but did as they included some interesting extras:

Here's a news article detailing the exploits of the soldier in China, so that was a cool extra, gives things a bit more context really. I guess the family had kept the article. That's the soldier in the picture. The newspaper portion isn't in great shape, but I've seen worse, I need to begin preservation. The propaganda cartoon came with the Manchurian Incident document, but I don't believe it has any connection to the soldier, but came with it for whatever reason. Apparently trying to convince the Chinese to surrender to the Japanese. Sacred Treasure doc. was stand alone, but I really didn't want to see it parted from the other two. No idea if this fellow had earned any other awards (I bet he did), and unfortunately I have no idea what happened to the awards themselves, guessing they were sold separately and I missed out, or they were lost, perhaps kept by the family, who knows. Anyway, enjoy!

I saw an Inner Mongolia Foundation Merit medal at auction not too long ago, it was in a China Incident case (that was the auction cover picture!) - I think it sold for around 2100 yen or so, danged cheap for the condition (was pretty good), despite the wrong case. I haven't seen too many of those either and they definitely sell for more than that. Now I look at every auction I see very closely, gotta get lucky again one of these days!

Long shot but you could try this:

http://www.jacar.go.jp/english/index.html

I'm less concerned about fake medals, though one does see replacement ribbon for sale as well as newly manufactured rosettes for the orders. Replica ribbon bars too, but at least the ones I've seen - the sellers have all listed them as "NEW" items, not originals. Granted, I'd imagine there are sellers out there that have swapped a ribbon or two and thrown in a fake rosette to sex up a particular piece, though I'd guess this is not too common, not sure it is worth the effort. I've not personally handled any of these replacement items, so I don't know if they are easy to distinguish from genuine articles or not.

I won't reveal exactly how much I paid for it, but let's just say the seller had no idea that this was the Korean Census medal, was being sold as Japanese National Census Medal, and it was cheap. Or at least I think it was cheap for this medal. One of those situations where it pays to know what the kanji look like!

It's not in the best shape, some fade and soiling to the ribbon and that abrasion you can see in the picture, some pitting to the medallion, and no case. But I've seen worse!

On the VERY long shot that somebody out there has just a case they want to part with, LEMME KNOW!!

Thanks guys. I really like the Sacred Treasure for some reason! (?)

The photos aren't the best, but here are two recent acquisitions. Pretty run of the mill as orders go, but I was happy to get 'em! The 5th class order is near mint, later issue (screws, not rivets). The 8th has some toning/tarnish, but remains in pretty nice condition overall.

You are brave for branching out!! I've restricted myself to Japanese stuff, that's hard enough on the wallet!! It's just too dang addictive and enjoyable to collect, but I've still gotta put food on the table. There are certainly other areas that interest me, but I'll need to win the lotto first!

I'm not into them myself (yet...), but they sure are interesting!! Now that I actually pay attention to them, seems like there is a mini for everything!!

And:

A few more:

Nice!! I have yet to acquire any life membership medals, the ones I see are never in the best condition, or missing rosettes, etc. Yours look good!!

Here is my small collection, minus a few Russo-Japan War commemorative medallions that I have:

I think the rosette to the Special Memebers medal in the wooden box is incorrect though, almost all of them that I see have the rosettes like the one in the lacquer box. I see that fancier type rosette with the merit medals. I've still got a long way to go on collecting Red Cross medals, but they are awesome, and they don't break the bank compared to some of the other goodies!