Dieter3

Recently arrived. Pretty good condition overall. Nick, what do you think - WWII-ish?

It is so frustrating to see documents and medals separated from one another just to try to make more money. It just seem unethical in some sense, to me anyway.

Rob is right. In the case above, it'd be highly unusual that this recipient did not have a Rising Sun, or Sacred Treasure as well, and quite possibly other, either war or commemorative medals.

I'd be very suspect of any medal and document combination that is claimed to be a matched set - the only way to be 100% certain is to obtain them directly from a family - obviously difficult. Otherwise you are relying on the word of a seller, and believe me when I say I have seen my share of items end up on eBay as exactly this, when the items had distinctly different sources on Yahoo! Japan. I'm not saying all sellers are guilty of this, but buyer beware.

No photos yet! I've had a bunch of documents for quite a while now, and they've been boxed up, some of them literally for a few years! Finallly got around to getting them into mylar sleeves and now they are all laying flat under some weight to weaken the curl. I'll get some photos in a week or two when they are more "cooperative".

It didn't go for as much as a Hirata-cased one, just shy of 10,000 yen. I kind of expected it to go for more.

Are these doucments always supposed to be watermarked? I see two different ones on Rich's site - one is for sure watermarked, the other one may simply not be shown. I've got one that is NOT watermarked. The gold orchid crest is also not really gold, does not appear as if it had any gold added to it! Otherwise is certainly seems "old", the expected marks, that old "smell", and it is very curled. Wonder if it is a fake? I'll try to get a photo of it in the near future.

WIsh I could see it unfolded! You know me and wrappers......

Current auction.

I've not seen a wrapper like this with this medal before, they are always specific. I suppose the other kanji could be folded under where we can't see 'em, but notice how close the kanji are to the 4 large center kanji in the second pic. Is this some kind of "generic" war medal wrapper? The 4 main kanji seem larger too as compared to the "correct" wrapper, maybe just an optical illusion?

Yeah, that kanji is very angular, seems too refined for such an early award!

Went at auction yesterday. An interesting case, suggesting an earlier design, but the kanji seem unusual for the early period, no? Anybody know more about this one? I'm assuming this is not a Hirata case, some other maker?

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2013/post-6375-0-46407300-1361111165.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2013/post-6375-0-94389400-1361111178.jpg

Peter,

depending on the "rustiness" depends on what you need to do. QSA is correct if very light rust and then use the wax preservative as per Brian (I'd suggest Renaissance wax polish though as used by the British Museum - pretty expensive but proven on German daggers etc by collectors) Easily available on e-bay (you only need a small one).

very rusty items can be de-rusted by electrolysis - a bucket of water with 4/5 tablespoons of washing soda or bi-carb (either will do) an old iron bar and a 12v battery charger. Positive on old iron bar, negative on sword (ah, maybe a long thin bucket) and a couple of hours of charging, rust will form 'orrible scum on water - clean the black stuff off of sword with a rag and hey presto - luvly

spaz

Second the Renaissance Wax - have used this on a few brass items and have been very impressed. Not hard to safely remove (from metals) if needed.

As far as removing the rust - just be careful. Whatever method you use, be sure to start small, go slow, and examine carefully to make sure the method is not harming the blade in any way. In the case of very light surface rust, I have had great success using brass wool and oil. Gun oil, mineral oil, these do fine. Light pressure. I carefully clean the oil off with mineral spirits, dry, and then you can use the wax.

Grumbler!

Congratulations!

P.S. I think the box with the silver kanji on the lid will be the safest choice

The Grumbler - My new nick-name? I like it, catchy!

Thanks!

And I would like to get a case to protect it at some point, so if a silver kanji one comes up, I'll try for that one.

Well, only partially. I hate having things without cases and rosettes, I'm very much into "completeness", but I thought it too nice to pass up. The problem is knowing which case is appropriate for it, should one ever become available (not a replica one!) - assuming latest style of kanji in silver, or the gold predecessor to that. Still, no way of knowing and keeping 100% true.

There was a gent selling a 5th Class wrapper and rosette only on eBay this past week. I thought about getting those, but passed them up. I contacted him and the rosette had no hallmarks, so I didn't know if it was repro or not. Thinking about it though, even if the rosette had a mark (I'd assume it would have been "SU"....), still no guarantees that it'd be a TRUE match. Oh well. I should just not worry about it.

Nick,

What do you think about this one? Based on this thread, I'm going with Showa Type 7 - do you agree? No case to help out.

Yes, it seems safe to say that this is an "original" type of case used for this medal....no??

Here's a similar kanji marked piece - note the faded color of the stripes on both the medal ribbon and rosette, but the actual color remains intact on the backside of the rosette - like exposure to something faded the stripes but the back was protected somehow. The construction seems very similar between the two. Note one ineresting difference (well interesting to me anyway!) - the thread on the ribbon rosette in the first specimen is RED and the other one, and the one Nick shows is blue! I know, I tend to focus on odd, and insignificant things.....HA!

The second one is a better example as the colors of the stripes are not faded (or at least uniform). In neither example is the rosette hallmarked. Sorry, the lighting isn't great in the photos.

I wish, I could take you at your word...

Maybe, I looked at the wrong corners?

Well, easy to find relative to some other medals! Sure, not the most common on the market, but by no means rare.

Nick, tell your friend I'll buy the Showa 7 wrapper......

Yeah, it is just a bit disappointing that, in my opinion, the quality has suffered in the modern era. Not the medal - it seems very nice, but the cases are not. Oh well. At least they are once again lacquer and not plastic!

Well, the medals are easy to find - the wrappers are more challenging!

Gotcha!!!

Recent eBay acquisition, some of you might have seen it. Guessing late Showa, early Heisei. Case is lacquer and has the latch again, still not as nice as earlier lacquer cases. Hinges (at least on this one) are held in place with nails. The hinge was loose as mentioned in the aBay auction - nails were pulling out, one was missing. I found this intolerable. I was able to carefully take the case apart, slightly enlarge the holes in the hinge, and resecure it with nice, threaded mini screws. Came out nice, though you can't actually see anything with the hinge cover material. I had to remove the inlay to do this and found the number "75" penciled onto the bottom. Overall, a pretty decent piece.

I still don't get it. Just the reverse is too plain, and boring?

Sorry for this stupid question, but what is so special on the Showa 7 wrap?

To get it right, there are wrap papers with the year Showa 5 (1930) and 6 (1931)?

Nothing more than is says "7"!! Just that it is different from 5 and 6. This is the kind of thing I love about collecting, all the subtle albeit typically unimportant differences. You should see me with the Showa Enthronment medal. Gotta collect a wrapper from every year, month, and maker!! Now it's my mission to get a Showa 7 Capital Rehabilitation medal.

Definitely makes sense. We know there were a variety of shops that made cases. It doesn't seem unreasonable that someone could order up a custom case for something. Definitely not hard to do, especially if you are already in the biz!!

Another great thread, especially fantastic documents!!! Thanks Rich, really nice.