Josef Rietveld

as far as i know the messe here stands for exhibition (trade show).

josef

Award Numbers:

KKfZV in Brilliants - 1 to Kajetan M?re von Kaposch-M?re for the Peace-Treaty of Brest-Litowsk (an award against the bylaws. Brilliants have not been designated)

KKfZV 1.Klasse - 234 (41 to women)

KKfZV 2.Klasse - 3.700

KKfZV 3.Klasse - 5.400

KKfZV 4.Klasse - 4.000

The numbers of classes 2.-4 are rounded up to the full hundred.

regards

josef

as addition:

IMHO this hallmark is Latvian and was used between ca. 1920-1939.

It stands for 875/1000 silver.

Source: Jan Divis, Silberstempel aus aller Welt

regrads

josef

Lieutenant (k.u.k. Fliegertruppe) and his Offiziersbursche (personal servant for officers)

congratulation. As Elmar mentioned very, very uncommon. I have never seen such a miniature of the officers cross before.

regards

josef

The neckcross ist the Dragon of Annam (Vietnam)

regards

josef

Hi Josef,

Here is my Karadag War Medal.

Best,

Artan

Hi Artan, wellcome on board and thanks for showing. Your Karadgag medal is in quite good condition. i habe seen many polished or worn to death

reagrds

josef

@gro

gr??e aus wien

can we see the other side aswell?

josef

@mahoni

thanks and greetings from rainy vienna

josef

more details

details

backside

this medal was shown in a german forum (SDA).

i didn't find it in my literature but i guess it could be one of the dozens of unofficial medals that were struck on the ocassion of the jungturk revolution 1908. i think i can read the ottoman date 1324 (=1908/09) beneath the thugra.

yout thoughts are wellcome

regards and thanks in advance

josef

Hi guys,

.....

Not good news, but thanks ; maybe I can get my money back.

Tim

Hope so, sorry for beeing the bearer of such a bad message

josef

IMHO this variant is a newmade fake that appears constantly on ebay and other marketplaces in the last 2 to 3 vears. (see ebay-pictures)

EBAY LINK

why do i think so:

I see a one part-construction. made in casting-technique. then thin enamel was added in the style of some known 1930ies-examples.

It ist definitely not silver and looks as it was washed with some liquid to create an oldstyle patina. Especially on the backside. the needle-sytem (hinge, eyelet, hook) isIMHO the same that was used by the rarit?ten...club for his restrikes of german states steckkreuze. (forinstens Mecklenburg MVK 1. Klasse)

just my two cents

josef

I recognise the background. You visited Hartmut R.'s-Shop

regards

josef

@Roman

what a beauty. i hope you possess it.

something funny to add. In 1914 after the beginning of WWI the AH-Authorities had a lack in golden bravery medals. So older-types depicting Franz Josef, that were on stock, have been issued. there exist pics from early WW1 were AH-Soldiers and NCO's are wearing such old-type-medals.

congratulations

josef

This is really quite odd because there was no PRUSSIAN exclusion by rank for awards to allies at all. The impediment had to have been some sort of strange limitation imposed on the AUSTRIAN end.

sad but true

josef

Hi Ian, I met J?rg Steiner last Friday and showed him a printout of you question.

He told me that this few examples were only exceptions of the rule. As written before, also by Steiner in other publications, enlisted AH-Soldiers could only receive the kriegerverdienstmedaille. it even happend that NCO's who got the IC under german command had to return it and got a kriegerverdienstmedaille instead.

regards

josef

@claudio

I'am afraid i 'am with saschaw when it comes to your bar.

-) as mentioned the IC2 was given ONLY (with very very very few exeptions) ONLY to officers belonging to the AH-Empire. This bar is missing any other AH-officers decoration as forinstens Military Merit Medal, Service cross or other austrian decorations as 1898 or 1908 medal

-) there is no Karl-Truppenkreuz so he didnt qualify for that if he was Austrian

-) the ehrenzeichen 2. Klasse vom Roen Kreuz with KD was a decoration that was also given for donations. a possibility often used by germans

-) the goldenes Verdienstehrenzeichen (Malteser) was also given to germans (I once had one with typical 938 silver-content-mark on the cylindre)

so thre is no proof that this bar belonged to an austrian. but there is no proof he belonged to a german either.

it stays a glaubenssache (question of belief)

PS: a real nice bar

regards

josef

is this the piece offered at wehrmacht awards forum?

josef

The Statutes of the Iron Merit Cross were first published May 30th 1916. The Crosses were intituted by royal decree on April 1st 1916.

The iron merit crosses were created as an award for Gagisten ohne Rangklasse und Mannschaftspersonen = Military-Clerks and professions like horsekeepers officer-servants and soldiers (Infanterist, Gefreiter - the NCOs started in AH with the rank Korporal)

Two ribbons were possible ?nd awarded: Red Ribbon and War Ribbon (= bravery medal ribbon),

the statutes say that both classes crown/without crown may be worn

In the decoration system the iron merit crosses rank after the silver merit cross.

there was no official awarding-decree but legitimations from the different units and commands.

on 4th June 1916 (kuk Oberkommando Verordnung 9118) it was published that also longserving NCOs could be awarded the Iron Merit Cross.

the right of bestowal laid by the different Armeekommandos, the Fleet-Command, the commanding General in Bosnia and Hercegovina, the Korps- and Gruppenkommandos, the Festungskommando Krakau, the Kriegshafebkommando Poa and the Milit?rgeneralgouvernments in russian Poland, Serbia and Montenegro.

with royal decree from 25th Jannuary 1917 all so far decorated military-personal was awared the war-ribbon for their decorations (Franz-Josephs-Order, Military Merit medals, Golden, Silver and Iron Merit crosses).

This was the end for all awardings to military with red peacetime-ribbons.

Source: J?rg C, Steiner, Das Eiserne Verdienstkreuz, Vienna 1992

Despite the regulations the iron merit crosses were later also awarded to ensigns and welldecorated front-soldiers

the picture shows a rare variant with openworked crown

regards

josef

PS: Iver, beautifull EVK, this is the slim-modell isn't it?

I realize that the Hindenburg Cross is German and the commemorative medal is Hungarian. My question is...Was this awarded during the Austro-Hungarian period or post AH?

Doc

hi doc,

both awards were given in the 1930ies

josef

Rick Research: I must correct you...

The first ribbon is not FJO-knight, but Military merit cross - Milit?rverdiestkreuz

The second ribbon is probably Military merit medal - Milt?rverdienstmedaille

That is also my opinion and makes sense

josef

Very intersting thread,

one question. I once sold this miniature via ebay (12 Euro). was it the monobloc aux cannons-typ? or am I wrong?

regards

josef