Josef Rietveld

more pics

Dear Forumites, another question.

From time to time, i saw rising sun orders in leather cases. Now i managed to get one (see pictures).

I have once been told in the WAF that this leathercases were private purchased by officers and used for travelling because the decorations could be easier

stowaged in the officers luggage then laquer-boxes. Can somebody confirm this story?

regards

Josef

Hi Josef,

Perhaps, but if you look at the lower set of roundels and compare your (L) Meiji to the two examples in post #2, you'll see the spacing is very similar, where as the one ® in post #1 shows these more closely spaced.

We don't know positively what die traits were indicative of each era unfortunately and this could be simply a case of different manufacturers. It would seem, if the design was changed to look different between eras, then the change would be more noticeable than just a small gap in one roundel. My thoughts anyway.

Tim

Well, that is a point, so it seems that i have two meiji kites - could be worse

@drclaw

what is nowadays the price for a meiji kite 6th class? i read some of the threads in the japan-section and it seems they go pretty high on ebay.

josef

Hi Josef,

I would agree with the dating in Post #2 but, aren't both Kites in Post #1 Meiji examples? Maybe its the angles and shadows in the PIC's.

Nice collection!

Tim

Gents, thanks for your comments.

@Tim

I'am not sure about that. I just checked them again. The roundels of left one in Post #1 touch the banner, but the right one shows the gap as later issued pieces - so i thought this could be a intermediate meiji/taisho-type.

You have to have sharp eyes when collecting golden kite 7 - not a game for old ladds

josef

Finally my Golden Kite 6th Class (no box, came in wrapped paper) IMHO a clear Showa-piece

josef

all of them

2nd Try:

Left: Golden Kite 7th Class Taisho

Right: Golden Kite 7th Class Showa

I'am not sure abbout the Taisho (2nd feather longest, two swordhangers but roundals don't touch the banner)

BTW A Big Thanks to Paul Murphy

josef

Dear Clubmembers, although i'am focused on Austrian-Hungarian and ottoman decorations i always admired the craftmanship of japanese ODM's.

So i built up a small collection over the past four years. Please have a look at my Golden Kites and tell me if my dating is correct:

Left: Early Meiji 7th Class

Right: Meiji/Taisho 7th Class

thanks in advance

Josef

A real nice bar with lots of charakter and nice international low-level bling-bling.

Congratulations

josef

Elmar: I am affraid it won´t be so easy... and cheap...

This could be true. It took me four years to get one. I also had the box before.

Unfortunately i can't show you pictures at the moment.

regards

and happy hunting

josef

always beautifull to look at - especially the early bravery medals (FJ) and the military merit crosses in luxury-cases.

regards

josef

I have just seen this remark

It's not for me to argue, but my great-uncle - a Reserve Chief Electrician (Stabselektrowärter)- was awarded the Iron Cross of Merit (Eiserne Verdienst-kreuz), with Crown, for ‘loyally dutiful service in the face of the enemy’ (per 14 Corps Order 345) on 7 December 1916.

Does that mean "at the front" or "on active service"?

Hi Archer, if your great uncle got his iron cross of merit for frontline service IMHO his cross should show crossed swords on the trifold ribbon.

something like am kriegsband mit schwertern = war-ribbon with swords

josef

Hi guys,

.....

Should all of these have two-piece crowns, with a separate inner enamel piece? I ask, as the one I am waiting on appears to be one-piece (looking at the PIC's) with the enamel inlaid into the crown. That may not be the case, only going off the seller's PIC'S. So, thoughts??

Thanks!

Tim

NO, the older ones, the cross was awarded from 1849-1918, have no enamel-inlay also a lot of later pieces especially silver-merit crosses. I have NEVER seen a austrian production real GOLD merit cross with crown that had an enamel inlay inside the crown. Only gilded pieces show enamel inlay.

regards

josef

Hi Josef,

I had PM'd you five days ago on this one and didn't hear back, so went ahead. Now, I have to wait and get it in-hand to find out for sure. I don't know if the ring has marks or not at this point as I cannot see under the ribbon and the seller didn't know or want to check it. Hopefully it will look better in hand, just have to wait and see at this point.

Thanks though.

Tim

I'am sorry, i read your PM, but i a had a very very exausting project-deadline-phase and had no energy to answer via pm nor on the forum.

I don't say this piece is crap, it is just that i have seen many merit crosses that were more beautifull. maybe the pics i have seen so far don't match your merit cross in reality.

again sorry

josef

Hi tim,

personally i don't like the silver merit cross/crown you are showing.imho the enamel work is awfull for AH-Standards. it looks like

the enamel on 1960ies rothe-copies. most silver merit crosses/crown have no enamel inside the crown. the method of enameling the crown on the outside is known from late WW1-pieces (especially iron crown orders).

it could be a later reenamelling (repair ? ) but on the other hand why should one fake a silver merit cross? they have alway been affordable. so i guess it is just a late-war-piece with not so welldone enamel. funny that the are NO hallmarks even silvered late-war-bronce-pieces have normally an asteriks mark.

@kev

the zinc-version you showed is a eisernes verdienstkreuz (iron merit cross). the look like a lower grade of the silver/gold merit crosses but it was created as an award of its own with statutes and regulations different from the other merit crosses.

regards

josef

Hi Zoran,

My medal has no hallmarks!

Funny, yesterday i checked my household-medal very intensively but it shows NO hallmarks aswell.

regards

josef

Hello Josef,

thanks for the answer; must be an interesting frack with JFO order and two medals.

4 Medals and one missing FJO to be exact. Here is the link to the GMIC-Thread. KLICK ME

regards

josef

Dear Bovec I really appreciate your informations.

This Household medal belongs to an austrian bar for the frack (frog in english ? ) i once showed here GMIC

Unfortunately one Medal is missing. The seller told me that he thinks/remembers a knightscross of the franz-josef-order was placed here.

That would be fit as serbia was pro-Austrian until 1903.

I didn`'t know that GAS produced this medals aswell i always thought of Mayer. Tomorrow i will check my medal again if there is a GAS-mark on the

eyelet (Kugelöse). So far i found no markings on my household medal but some months passed by since i had it in my hands for the last time.

I cannot imagine that i would have overlooked such a marking. I will report tomorrow

again thanks

josef

The Imtiyaz-Set for both medals, btw the second one I have ever seen, looks pretty good although the picture doesn't show to much detail.

josef

Congratulations ballkanphila,

here comes mine.

Some questions: Did you find any hallmarks or Maker Marks?

I have been told that these have also been made by Vincenz Mayer (Vienna) - this medals should be hallmarked

Was "Braca Z.Popovic Beograd" a jeweller who strucked the medals or were the just resellers?

has anybody awarding numbers?

All Household Medals 1st Class I have see so far have really poor (faded) gilding - ist this normal?

thanks in advance

josef

I have no problem with this one. One of the known variants stamped BB&Co

josef

Hello Josef,

They are good enough to get an idea.

There is another very easy way to understand which is real and which is not:

The real Mecidi Order first and second class have two layer rays on top of each other and have crescent and star in between the longest rays, like the one you have on the left side of the picture. The other have the crescent and star on top of the first layer rays and have long pins.

I don't know why, but they usually produce it that way, so they can claim later that it is made as a souvenir item. One can say that, perhaps the top layer was reeligned because it became loose. Maybe! but untill this date when I see similar orders, I do not look twice.

demir

Greetings demir, this IS a very good hint, i will keep it in mind. Ich checked my other two Go-Stars and the layers are all synchronized.

josef

reverse

Dear Linas,as i wrote in personal conversation, IMHO your stars corpus (body) is cast and not made of pierced

elements that are later assembled. I own such typ of copy (GO-Star) myself, that i once bought as declared copy. I tried now several times to make pictures of an original and the copy as comparism but i failed with the GMIC-Upload-Limit (110 k).

So the pictures i show now won't be significant enough.

regards

Josef

Dear Avsar, you are absolutely right - both are copies.

Maybe we should ask the seller? We have a GMIC-clubmember called linasl.

I guess he is maybe the seller on ebay.

josef