Josef Rietveld

Details

Previtera Backside

Dear Enzo,

I stumbled across this variants as i scrolled through Previteras 'Iron Time'. He depicts a german post 1919-Bar (obverse and reverse) with an identical Militärverdienstkreuz/KD (see picture). The first time i saw this variant on a bar in another forum i knew i wanted it quite deeply. Not only because it is a nice complete set (well there could have been a frog-bar aswell) but more cause of this oldfashioned Militärverdienstkreuz/KD-Variant.

regards

Josef

Hello,

a nice group indeed! Is the Austrian Militäverdienstkreuz mit der Kriegsdekoration an old-type piece with the "Strich-Punkt-Strich" under the "VER/DIENST"? From the picture it gives this idea...

Best wishes,

Elmar Lang

Dear Enzo,

you are absolutely right. The old MVK-Type on the bar was one of the main reasons for me to buy it. For me a 100-percent-proof that german manufactureres after 1918 produced MVK's

according to the old regulations (Statuten). Later i will show additional pictures of the MVK and its reverse (fully enamelled white)

josef

Dear Gentlemen,

finally, after some months of negotiations, i can (proudly) present this nice german post-1934 WW1-medalbar-set.

I guess that there is NO chance of finding out the name belonging to the bar, or am I wrong?

The set came without box so i asked a fried (boxmaker) to make a new one.

I changed ONE thing that will irritate some of you but i just had to do it.

There was no IC1 within the set but for reasons of symmetry and presentation i put an IC1 of my collection into the box.

Two other things, that came with the set are not included in the box.

The origially box for the bulgarian Military Merit Order 4th class (plus Trifold-Robbon) and a miniature for the 5th class of this order.

josef

Another piece.

The ribbon is old but seems to be not the original one. Aswell I'am not 100percent sure if the gilding wasn't renewed once.

regards

Josef

Rudi, stunning collection.:love: Thank you.

Hi Rudi,

always a pleasure to look at

regards

josef

Hi Brian,

a real nice patriotic medal from the beginning of the Great war.

IMHO the medal is maybe not of austrian-hungarian but rather german manufacture:

Why:

1) Wilhelms inscription is the first you start reading

2)the suspension is german-style (Baden ? )

3) Backside. The battles mentioned (except Russia) are battles the german fought allone during 1914

Why not:

1)Kaiser Franz Joseph is full-face

2) triangular ribbon (Saxony ? )

regards

josef

PS_ are there any hallmarks? cause it looks like silver?

breathtaking,

i'am not sure what i like more the bar or the mini not to forget the papers.

Congrats

Josef

My thanks to both Ian and Josef for identifying the last 2 ribbons.

Josef, thank you for the brief history and the link on the Vets Organisation. The information you have provided leads me to believe that this ribbon bar was constructed between 1934 and 1938 when the Styrian Organisation was banned in Austria.

If anyone has pictures of these medals i would love to see them.

Kind regards

Pierce

Try this Link and scroll down to Steiermak (Styria)

My link

josef

Dear Pierce IMHO the Greenwhite Ribbon stands for a servicetime (maybe Merit)-medal

from the styrian branch of the nationwide KAMERADSCHAFTSBUND.

The Kameradschaftsbund is a Veterans-Organization that was

originally founded 1850. After 1900 the numbers increased and

after 1918 it became an austrianwide national mass-organization that was in 1938

instantly forbidden by the now ruling NS-Government.

The Hundreds of Kameradschaftsbund-Vereine

and Sections became 'gleichgeschaltet'. Some sections were extinguished,

some merged with the german NS-Controlled-Kyffhäuserbund. Their Aim was to weaken and

erase the austrian tradition in this veterans-organization

and to strenghten the we-are-all-germans-soldiers-Approach.

Not untill 1953 it took to reestablish the old Kameradschaftsbund and his nine main-branches,

one for each austrian bundesland (Province).

The OKB is still active with actual 250.000 Members and 1800 kind of 'Clubhouses' spread over the country.

The members come mostly from non-urban aereas and smaller Citys (especially from Carinthia)

ÖKB

BTW i'am NO member

josef

Another Picture

josef

I had some realy nice ebay-experiences:

2005 i found this on ebay.com. It was sold in the category medal (coins):

OEK 1224 Schaumburg-Lippe, Orden für Kunst und Wissenschaft, 2nd Class, 1902-1918

and

OEK 1171 Lippische Rose für Kunst und Wissenschaft 2.Klasse mit Eichenlaub

des Fürstenthums Lippe-Detmold (43 times awarded)

Both decorations belonged to the swedish Opera Singer Lilly Walleni 1875 -1920 (born as Sanna Klara Valentin-Strandberg).

Same Seller, each one for 49,9 USD

I sold both pieces to a german lippe-collector, both awards have already been presented here.

Rose

Another one i remember was a Knights Cross of the Order of the Hungarian Holy Crown with swords (instant buy 200 Euro), and a very welldone Order of the Holy Sepulchre in real Gold (50 euro instant buy), then a 1860-Typ austrian Order of the Iron Crown 2nd Class in GOLD (sold as 3rd Class, unfortunately a slovenian collector realised this rarity aswell and i had to pay 1100 USD) I regret now, but i traded it for a rare early Medjidie-Breaststar), a cased Franz-Josef-Orden Knights Cross (gilt) with relating miniature and chain in GOLD from Scotland (360 euro), Then a cased GC-Set of a columbian Order of Boyaca with relating miniature (168 USD), a hallmarked slovakian Pribina-Order (sold for 50 USD a religious item) .......

Josef

Very interesting variant of the Order of the Iron Crown IIIrd Class the Oberleutnant is wearing.

Is this a Photo with added drawings of the decorations or a real Photo?

josef

The only FJO-cloath badges i know are all made today in Asia. I have never seen a pre-1918 original. This makes sense because the FJO was instituted in 1849 - a little bit to late for cloath badges, which came out of fashion arround 1840.

My link

regards

josef

Dear Pavel as addition: The dorotheum in vienna offers a Kriegsmedaille 1873 with white backside in its actual auction (27th of May).

DOROTHEUM

regards

josef

Hammerprice was 400 Euro

josef

I have an interesting example of Mobilization Cross 1913, which has on reverse engraved name of three officers; namely

SCHULHOF HPTM. / GRUBER OBLT. / KUNIĆ LT.

On upper arm is engraved 9. KOMP

Obviously Cross was a gift from officers of the 9. Company of the 4th BH Regiment to theirs colleague officer.

Cross itself is not a special high quality example, which was usual made as a gift, but surprisingly a common issue.

I checked my 1914 Schematismus.

There is NO Kunic, i read the inscription as KONÍC and the rangliste shows August Konic per 1. May 1913 as Lieutenant in the Bosnisch-hercegovinisches IR 4 but I din't found him directly on the BH 4 Pages in the Schematismus - maybe some kind of transit.

I did found Hauptmann Gotthard Schulhof (Signum Memoriae, 1908-Army-Cross, Molisierungskreuz) and Oberleutnant Richard Gruber (1908-Army-Cross, Molisierungskreuz) both belonged to the BH IR4

haynau

Dear Pavel as addition: The dorotheum in vienna offers a Kriegsmedaille 1873 with white backside in its actual auction (27th of May).

DOROTHEUM

regards

josef

my guess: 250 to 300 Euro

josef

Dear Pavel as addition: The dorotheum in vienna offers a Kriegsmedaille 1873 with white backside in its actual auction (27th of May).

DOROTHEUM

regards

josef

As far as i know, unfortunately i forgot the source, there existed early osmanie-oders with red enamel circle arrund the center medaillon. But i have never seen one with trusting provenience.

regards

josef

Gentlemen,

There was an earlier thread on this forum about Long Service awards that had material on the back of the medals so they would not mark the uniforms. I don't remember what the material material was that was used on the backs of the medals but it was definitely not plastic. I don't think that they were specifically for Generals either but I can not be sure of that.

Regards,

Gordon

dear gordon, we have been talking abbout mother of pearl, tortoise shell and enamel as far as i remember

regards

josef

thanks for showing. it's a shame but i haven't seen such variants before.

regards

josef

It seems to be a socalled (Dom-) Kapitelabzeichen given to the members of a cathedrals chapter. Unfortunately i can't identify it. this i a collectors field on its on.

regards and good luck

josef

thanks elmar for your comments, i'am really curious to see pictures especially from the faked iron crowns. who told you that, freddy from tyrol?

regads

josef

This company must have been specialised on unique variants. This one is also Gebrüder Schneider (copyright emedals).