avadski

100% true. No exceptions.

So what would the verdict be for above cross? Fake zinker? Is it worth faking? Prices for both bronze and zinc are almost identical.

What are these crosses? I've noticed fairly high number of these zinc-looking pieces in the market in last couple of months. Are they to be sold as fake zinkers or were there period pieces made of other metal than bronze?

Outstanding! Thank you very much.

Nice set but not matching. 1st type MVKs were awarded until 1905, J.Leser got his first contract to produce Bavarian medals in 1906.

Very good piece of information. Do you by chance know when were the other makers authorized? Weiss, Hemmerle, Lauer and Deschler?

By coincidence here's another etui from eBay. This time being sold with something that looks like MVO without swords.

http://cgi.ebay.de/w...0603712067.html

But I agree with you regarding the rarity of the item. I haven't seen a single one for sale in recent years. To me it's just a question of preference. Maybe you already have couple of 1. classes and an etui would be a good addition to your collection. For me to have at least one 1. class cross would be the same achievement.

Maybe I have different price expectations but to me reasonable prices are:

- MVK3X - 25 EUR

- MVK3XC - 40 EUR

- MVK2X - 120 EUR

- MVK2XC - 200 EUR

- MVK1X - 450 EUR

Regarding etuis - I would not pay more that 20 EUR for paper one and 30 EUR for box for 3rd class, 80-100 EUR for 2nd class and 200 for the 1. class.

But maybe I'm just a dreamer :whistle:

Wow. What would it be next year for? 400 EUR?

My bar should arrive next week. Then I can post pics but don't expect some amazing stuff. Same as yours but starts with EK2, then Leser 3rd class and DA for 9 years. As this would be my first bar I have no clue what the plain or Bavarian style is supposed to be To me it simply looks like yours .

Here is a close up of my BMVK II class from mm G.Hemmerle -Munich

Cross seems to be nice original. What about the second button? Was there an enamel repair? Maybe a manufacturing defect...Hemmerle did not produce that level of quality which is seen with pieces from Leser or Weiss...

I'd say nice early Hemmerle. I still miss that variant in my collection. The one I posted earlier in this topic (post #5) is his late brother (1917+ maybe).

Better to have something to compare with...left hand side late Deschler, right hand side early Deschler.

In 99% of cases the enamel around the belt buckle means that the cross was made by 'monkey fingers', as Rick used to say. There was however at least one exception. At the very late stages of the war and most likely after the war as well Deschler made 2nd class crosses with the white enamel everywhere in the buckle. Here's the close up of such cross.

well, here is my contribution-acquired many years ago from Spinks. Did I get burned?

For the beginning...it was made by Hemmerle. So one OK given for the maker who was authorized to produce the 1. class. However the picture is too bad to give final verdict.

And this is my Bavarian cross II class from Gebrude Hammerle marked with GH on swords.

Owner a brave NCO.

@Avadski

Is this the medal Bar you was looking for?

Yep, that's the one

I already got mine this week.

Could you please post a close up of that 2nd class?

What do you guys think about this medal bar?

Honestly I'm lost when I see a cross without swords. Is it supposed to be 2. form of 1st class or 3. form of 2nd class? To me it looks like 3rd form 2. class. How many awards were there without swords (3rd form)? Does anyone have some number?

These are the numbers I have collected over the past years but I think only the number of awards during WW1 (w/ swords) is close to reality.

Another one. Do you know the maker?

Hello,

It was made by J. Leser.

For those of us newer collectors please explain the issues with that cross - I am many others would be greatly interested in hearing!

Briefly, a very poor home-made cross.

According to my knowledge there was not a single one awarded during war. Taking into account that the 3rd form had been awarded since 1913 the Bavarians had only few months to award someone. I saw somewhere that there were some 468 awarded on the ribbon for officials but I doubt this is correct. Maybe some more experienced elders here could confirm the number of awards without swords per class.

In this case at least the correct peace-time ribbon was used.

And regarding the seller...check this topic, some interesting reading there: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=29934

Why is he doing that to those crosses!!

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemnext&item=140404534060.html

Plague on him..

Today there was a nice Hemmerle 2nd class sold on eBay. For nearly 140 EUR!! What the .... is going on with the prices nowadays? Last year I purchased same class for at most 120 EUR. Also I noticed the different prices between US, UK and German eBay. While German one is reflecting the market prices, the US one is always 15% or more below and the UK one is all extreme. Sometimes you see unbelievable prices which are almost twice as high as on German eBay, sometimes it's twice as low...One is for sure: prices are raising and someone should say 'Stop!' to that.

OK, OK...now I shut up. I just needed to release the pressure

Let's go back to MVKs.

and BTW here's the MVK sold today: http://cgi.ebay.de/Bayerischer-Orden-MVK-1866-Original-Bayern-Merenti_W0QQitemZ300420488355QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMilitaria?hash=item45f274dca3

Anyone from here got it?

1st class until 1917 w real gold center Weiß & Co. swords by Hemmerle

Wow, is it a home-made repair or had the makers a deal to provide devices like swords to each other?

Hello avadski,

Not being a metallurgist, I cannot claim to be an expert on the topic, but I will pass on what I do know and think.

First, zinc is an identifiable element, symbol Zn. So, I guess that means that it is that sort of thing that stands alone

with it's own unique characteristics that cannot be broken down any further, like carbon, iron or even oxygen. War

metal, on the other hand is made up of several different components and the proportions of these components can

vary from batch to batch.

If you take a close look at the crosses in posts 2, 3, 25 and 26, you may be able to tell that the swords and crown

are made from a metal which is different from the metal of which the crosses are made.

Again, I am not an expert on these matters and will gladly defer to any other member who might be able to give more

accurate information on this question.

Best wishes,

Wild Card

Hello,

I got your point then. My thinking always was that the body was made out of zinc, the swords of iron (try magnet) and the crown either iron or bronze.

well i was able to move the sword enough - very tight - to see a W then a C and then the clearly visible o so i guess that would confirm

This is how a Weiss up to 1916 looked like:

As I said, I'm not sure whether they made any first classes after 1916.

Since everyone is posting their MVK's - here is a pic of my 1st class

Has a mark on the sword - letter o and something I cannot make out

Any suggestion on real/fake and maker?

Just noticed your comment about mark on your 1. class... Could that be WCo. (for Weiss&Co.)?