Dolf

No idea what it is, but I find it has a certain charm, the way the drawings are crudely hand made. The rider's head comes straight out of a comic book.

Well, if it is an attempt to forge a coat of arms, that's scary rather than charmy, althought it's quite crudely made...

Now, the reason I asked before about the rider it's exactly because it looks to me like a monkey or something like that!

And you're right, the whole thing looks a bit like if it comes out of a comic book, that's what I meant when calling it a caricature.

Dolf

This is what the wall plaques for ministeries etc... look like

Thanks a lot Jan.

So that "thing" I posted is definetely not a wall plaque!

The pic was emailed to me from Ukraine...

Dolf

I am thinking "wall plaque" as in a government office.

There is H04, but this seems not at all to be THAT.

Indeed, not like H 04, Ed.

This one almost looks like a caricature of H 04!

Take a look at the rider, what does it look like to you?

Dolf

How big is it? Carved out of wood?

Rick,

Have no idea so far! Still waiting for the "reverse" (will it have one?!) pic.

To me it looks like a primary result of a casting mould, and that's why I asked for more opinions.

Scary if it is what I think

Already emailed the original pic received (quite larger than this one posted here) to my expert friend in Mongolia, will have to wait for the verdict.

I really hope it's not at all what I suspect and that I'm only being a bit paranoic...

Thanks,

Dolf

Any idea what this is?

Could it be an attempt to fake the Mongolian coat of arms?!...

I've asked the guy who emailed this pic to me for the "reverse" of such thing, still waiting, will post it if I get it.

Dolf

Very nice, Ed!

What are they made of, brass? And the stones, what are they, any idea?

Dolf

Dan,

Thanks for claryfying the S/Ns.

Anyway I guess that doesn't change what I said before about the possible dates, as the #s still match the info I have.

Maybe some other member can give more precise details. Or you should perhaps have a look at the Mondvor site, maybe they have more detailed info.

On this site here (hope it's ok to post the link!) you'll find a lot of info as well:

http://www.soviet-screwbacks.com/

Hope it helps,

Dolf

Dan,

According to Shishkov & Muzalevsky, your OGPW should be their 3h variation, apparently made heavier than other so called "Khruschyovka".

According to McDaniel it should be a Type 2, Flatback variation. McDaniel states on the Guide that these exist with a small mint mark (located below the screw and above the S/N) or with no mint mark. Apparently yours of this kind, no mint mark, right? What is the S/N of yours? I'm not 100% sure with this pic! 907735 or 967735 ?

According to Shishkov & Muzalevsky, S/N 911443 is from 1956! But he lists S/Ns between 276978 to 733913 as being from 1945. And between 45 and 56, nothing is listed!

As for the ORS, this is a Type 2.

I'm not sure about the S/N! Is it 1555316 ?

Anyway, it should date from 1945, as Shishkov & Muzalevsky list S/Ns 1003749-2860000 from 1945.

This matches what is said by McDaniel on the Guide.

Yours seem to have a large mint mark, which is one of the variations.

Hope it helps,

Dolf

Dolf,

I was under the impression that the back of the early series is somewhat "textured" where as the 4500 series is very smooth. Can you confirm this.

Jan

Jan,

Oh yes, definetely true!

Even if my scanner has a tendency to darken my pieces (specially the reverses with a bright silver color) I believe that is still possible to see if comparing the pic of the reverse of #4450 posted above with those of #1500 and #1806, right?

PS: "the plot thickens" is a Sherlock Holmes quote that means that things are getting more complicated

Ok, I see, Mr. Holmes

Dolf

Same, reverse:

Dolf

J 02 Flatback, S/N 1806 (at 7 o'clock).

Weight: 15,60gr

Obverse:

Dolf

PS: Notice that all weights given here are without the screwnuts!

Anyway, amazingly the screwnut of my #4450 is much bigger than all the others, so not sure if it's the right one, even if it was modified it must have been a long time ago as revealed by the matching marks on the reverse!

Same, reverse:

Dolf

J 02 Flatback, S/N 1500 (at 6 o'clock as usual, at least as my #4450 and most of those I've seen for sale).

Weight: 14,20gr

Obverse:

Dolf

Notice the back on the 4000-range flatbacks is really flat, on these early ones, the backs are slightly uneven, the plot thickens, dear Watson

Jan

Jan,

Comparing my older #4450 with two others recently arrived (pics below) with lower S/Ns (1500 and 1806) I honestely am not that sure that the difference is on the reverse being more flat on higher S/Ns and more concave on lower S/Ns! If there is a difference there it's indeed so slight that my eyes can't seem to see it!

In fact, if comparing both obverses side by side, it even seems that the one of my #4450 is slightely more curved than the lower S/Ns shown below!

What you mean by "...the plot thickens..." ? Can't comment on this one as I can't understand what you mean by that.

The differences I could find so far are:

- the weight

- the blue enamel on the obverse

- the material they are made of

About the weight, my #4450 posted above some time ago has 19.80gr.

Both the other two with lower S/Ns shown below are lighter (exact weight below).

Now, about the blue enamel, this is not an easy one to explain, anyway, on my #4450, the blue enamel is pretty different from all the others. It looks brighter, and of a different shade, but most of all it seems as if the enamel was covered by a thin skin of varnish. On the other two below, the blue enamel is exactly the same as usually seen on the J 02 mirror reverse, see what I mean? The blue on my #4450 looks like gloss, on the others it looks more mat. At least for me maybe because I can compare both in person, this is even visible if comparing the pics of the obverse of #4450 posted above and the others.

As for the material they are made of, these lower S/Ns are probably made from a lighter metal, either not silver (supposing the higher S/Ns are made of silver) or a different kind of silver!

Guys, if more members have both these variations please post your comments, opinions, etc

This is just the result of my own observations,

Dolf

PS: Just noticed that the blue enamel of my #4450 is closer to the blue enamel on those J 03 Badges

fjcp,

Thanks for the PM claryfying the S/Ns observed, including your #17.

So, with a S/N lower than my #20, there is that S/N 1 sold by the NJ dealer a couple of years ago as mentioned by Jan on the appropriate thread + S/N 12 he has for sale now (for $1,100.00USD!!!) and yours with S/N 17, right?

Dolf

A new arrival, Deputy of the State Lower Assembly Badge, B 01, S/N 20.

I guess that apart from that S/N 12 for sale on that NJ dealer's site, this one is probably the next lower S/N I've seen.

Dolf

Very nice, Ed!

Dolf

And finally, reverse, black background.

Dolf

Reverse, red background.

Dolf

Second one:

Dolf

Last addition to the Mongolian Orders collection, a lovely ORBMV 1940-1945 (A 22.1)

S/N 181, in mint condition. A T1V2, according to Jan's list of Types & Variations on the appropriate thread.

A couple of scans of the obverse, with different background colors: (not sure which one I prefer I guess )

Dolf

I might be paranoid but aren't there traces of bleaching around the serial number's entry?

Yes there are indeed, that is pretty obvious that the original # was somehow erased and replaced by the # matching this Medal. The reason for someone to do that? Obvious too, it sells for more money than the Medal alone!

Doesn't the callligraphy seem different for the SN and the rest of the doc?

Absolutely!

As it also looks different on the Doc for that Order of Combat Valor!

From the look of it I'm preetty convinced that entry isn't official and was later added with the intention of deceiving!

Awards, and S/Ns on awards are harder to fake, but that's pretty easy to do that on papers. At least an amateur job as on these. I guess a professional would have done a better job.

Dolf

The wrestling bacge shown above (on the left, the one on suspension) at http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=5914&st=66 is for somebody's 7th Spartikad.

Thanks Ed.

Your wrestling Badge, is it for the 7th, or the 6th? I believe I see a "VI", right?

Dolf

Thanks, Dolf!! Maybe he got scared off by too many legitimate questions being asked and he realised that he was caught. Just my two cents worth.

Doc

Mike,

I just don't know if it was him who withdraw the item or if it was eBay who removed it! In fact, if I read it correctly what is said on eBay I think it could have been removed by eBay! If my memory is not wrong when a seller withdraw an item I don't think the eBay text is the same as this one I got!

So maybe someone (perhaps the real owner of those items!) just complained to eBay and...

In fact I just checked as I was writing this and the seller in question is... No longer a registered user...

I guess that says it all!

Dolf

This listing (#xxxxxxxxxx) has been removed or is no longer available.

That's what I have when searching for the item on eBay!

Dolf