Dolf

Here are two Ranger-herder Badges.

Starting with J 04.

Only an obverse pic of this one.

Dolf

Same, reverse:

Dolf

Now the flatback, S/N 4450.

Obverse:

Dolf

Same, reverse:

Dolf

Mirror-reverse, S/N 3345.

Obverse:

Dolf

Same, reverse:

Dolf

Ok, here are my Best Herder, J 02. Rather than my usual 600dpi scans, in order to try to speed up playing a bit these are 400dpi.

Mirror-reverse, S/N 3344.

Obverse:

Dolf

No, this one isn't here intentionally. My understanding is that this is more of a RANGER-herder (=~ "cowboy") badge than a herder (=~ "shepherd") badge. I gather this is one of the mis-identifications that we have inherited from Herfurt's somewhat clumsy pre-Battushig efforts.

Separate badge, separate series. Will put up one when I have one, but in another thread. Can someone launch us onto that one, please.

Yet I must admit I have trouble figuring out the two that Dr. B shows -- J 04 and J 04b -- is there any difference?? I know this gets arcane, but . . . ?!

But:

Ed,

ok, that's what I thought anyway, J 04 is indeed a Best Ranger, but as they are all four types listed as J 01, J 02, J 03, J 04, on the Agriculture series, I don't make a huge difference between them.

Right now I only have here with me one J 04, which I believe it's J 04b. There is one J 04 on it's way here so I'll post both as soon as I get this last one. I think that the only slightely differences concern the colors, mainly the sky, than anything else. I have pics but not as detailed as I usually do them here with the scanner (which I prefer to the digital camera for small details) so better post them later.

Dolf

I got all excited when you posted those serial numbers. I thought we had matching numbers.....now that would have been interesting.....

My two J02s are both mirror reverse......(anybody have a spare flatback??? ) the SNs are 3444 and 3471 and both are marked at the 8 o'clock position.

I'm just curious about the silver or brass issue since

I'm not sure what mine are.....

The weight difference between a silver and a brass badge would be between 17% and 20%, excluding the weight of the enamel, screw post, and screw plate of course.

My badges weigh 15.8grams for sn 3477 and 15.7grams for sn 3444.

Dolf could you weigh yours?

So does anybody know how to distinguish the two?

fjcp,

Have you seen the size of my display...

Ok off the wall again...

Hey, just kidding

So, for the weight:

#3344 (mirror-reverse) ? 16,80gr

#3345 (mirror-reverse) ? 16,20gr

#4450 (flatback) ? 19,75gr

Of course, this is without the screwnuts.

The flatback seems to be a bit harder to find than the mirror-reverse, anyway only have one of these, fjcp, sorry

In my humble opinion I think they are all in silver, simply on some the silver is darker than on other. If you clean them I suppose they all will shine like... silver.

But some collectors state they exist in brass and silver (Jan has a theory on this, he might be the right person to help you on finding the differences, if they exist), I just don't know, I believe both mine are silver and so far I haven't had others on my hands. Soon I should so I will see.

If you want to test yours you just have to bring them to a trustworthy and competent jewller and ask him for check it, if you don't mind they do a test on your pieces: a little scratch on the reverse, then a drop of some liquid and depending on the color it takes, it's solid silver, or silverplated brass or brass.

I didn't test mine but I was told it won't damage them, as anyway after the test they can polish themand you hardly will notice whatever they did.

Hope it helps.

Dolf

So . . .

. . . might we tentatively say?

J 01 - Type 1 (Mongol legend, crude construction, mirror reverse); Low = 15/High = 399

J 02b - Type 2.1 (Mongol legend, mirror reverse); Low = 32/High = 4100

J 02a - Type 2.2 (Mongol legend, flat reverse); Low = 4246/High = 4450

J 03 - Type 3 (Cyrillic legend, unnumbered)

????????????

Ed,

Have you forgot to mention J 04? There are also 2 variations of this one as listed on "the book".

This type is not serial numbered as for J 03.

Dolf

And a nicer more detailed scan of the Order itself.

Isn't it nice?...

This Order is part of the group of the Military Orders (Order of the Tower and the Sword, Order of Christ, Order of Avis and this one) and "is awarded to distinguish outstanding services in the arts, sciences and literature, with noteworthy merit and achievements"

Dolf

Latest addition to this branch of the collection, Order of Santiago of the Sword, not sure if Knight or Officer grade.

The Box, and Inside the box:

Dolf

EDIT: After research I believe it's Officer grade.

A very nice T2 just went off in Germany for over 1100-Euro... just about right in line with dealer pricing on these.

1,100.00? is a good price these days, even for a pinback type!!!

Dolf

So . . .

. . . might we tentatively say?

J 01 - Type 1 (Mongol legend, crude construction, mirror reverse); Low = 15/High = 399

J 02b - Type 2.1 (Mongol legend, mirror reverse); Low = 32/High = 4100

J 02a - Type 2.2 (Mongol legend, flat reverse); Low = 4246/High = 4450

J 03 - Type 3 (Cyrillic legend, unnumbered)

????????????

Ed,

I guess, I honestely haven't checked it, I trust you and Jan for this kind of "details"

Dolf

Congrats Dolf a very nice item indeed.

Well it would be rude not to share so here goes.

Not sure if I wanna keep them both but they sure look good as a pair.

fjcp,

Thanks, and congrats for your beautiful pieces too!

If they were serial numbered it might have make sense to keep both, as for example my two J 02 with S/Ns following each other, otherwise... well, not my business anyway

Dolf

Here's a question. I have seen the J02 mirror-backs (which I believe to be earlier than the flat-back J02s) in both silvered bronze and bronze versions (is the silver coating simply gone?) and with serial numbers at 11-o'clock (Battushig's example. #32) and at 8-o'clock (this specimen, #2949). What is happening here??

About these J 02:

I have two mirror reverse, S/N 3344 and S/N 3345 (yes, lucky hein? ) and both look like silver and both have the S/N at 8 o'clock. I don't think I've ever seen one of these with the S/N at 11 o'clock as the sample shown on Dr. Battushig's book! I wonder if the real S/N at 8 o'clock has not been erased for some reason and S/N 32 just added at 11 o'clock!

Ed have you ever seen others with the S/N on that location?

My other J 02 is a flatback version, S/N 4450, and in this case the S/N is at 6 o'clock.

Will post pics later.

Dolf

Oh . . . nice . . . the J03s are elusive!

Yes, hard to decide which one is my favorite as I also like J 02 and J 04 quite a lot.

J 01 is the most rudely made, it has it's own charm of course, but I like more any of the 3 others, probably with J 03 and J 02 as my real favorites on this "Agriculture" series

Guys, please check out the screwnuts of your J 01 pieces to see if we find the same or other marks on them.

Thanks,

Dolf

Interesting. I just got one in (#155) with the same very crude screw back. No mark identifiable, but clearly Mongol-made. No help from the Friendly Northern Neighbor here.

Thanks Ed.

Same screwnut indeed, as for the few others I've seen.

I'll do some research on that mark, whatever it is.

Dolf

And the large screwnut for this one.

Dolf

And another Outstanding Herder, J 03, a very nice Badge indeed!

Dolf

And the screwnut that goes with.

Is it a mint mark? A maker's mark? Or a "8" ? Why? For what? Any suggestions? Have you guys seen others with this kind of mark, among your pieces?

Dolf

It seems this one is now the lowest S/N observed (at least in the Forum)

S/N 15

Dolf

Very nice figures indeed, Marc!

Would these be considered Science-fiction or rather "medieval-fantastic" (or whatever the right name might be in english; anyway, see what I mean?) ?

I have the feeling that science-fiction would rather be more like Star Wars kind of figures.

Anyway, have seen some of these on a couple of wargames (traditional but also all the kind of other more recent "medieval-fantasy" games) clubs. Yours are really very nice, great job!

I used to play traditional boardgames (with mapboards or eventually mapsheets and the units represented in those carboard pieces), mostly on WWII, you may know those Avalon Hill classics (my favorites being those impulse system ones, such as "Turning Point: Stalingrad", my #1 favorite ever), unfortunatelly for lack of time, lack of local opponents and different interests (such as collecting Medals ) I haven't played anymore for quite some time. Not that I don't miss the feeling, but that's life

Keep up the good work!

Best,

Dolf

I think it's an Outstanding Construction

Jan,

Yeah, an "Outstanding Improvised Assembling"

Dolf

Multiple choice question: Is this a "NIB" or a "mule"?

a) This is a "NIB" a variety of The Outstanding Construction Worker (B #N05).

b) This is an unholy marriage of The Outstanding Construction Worker (B #N05) and something else (maybe X01/X02?).

Your answer??

Ed,

I definetely opt for answer B.

The Badge itself is a N 05, with a suspension of a X 01.

Notice that there are differences between the suspension of X 01 and X 02, X 01 being screwback and enameled, and X 02 being pinback with what seems to be paint. This last one is also bigger than the one on X 01.

Well, at least that's what I have on my own samples.

Dolf