Dolf

Dolf,

Serving in combat was not necessary to receive it.

Doc

Mike,

Right, that's my point

Dolf

Dolf,

It also says that it can be awarded...For Bravery and self-sacrifice displayed in executing military duties.l

Overall, It is awarded for High levels of service, merit and bravery.

Doc

Mike,

Yes, I know, but what I was trying to find out was if it was only awarded for military deeds in combat in a war context. Mainly because I can't remember if the USSR was (directly!) involved in any conflict in the 70's. Of course there were Soviet military advisors in a few different places, including my home country Angola in the mid 70's, but not at a war like in Afhanistan (if my memory isn't playing me tricks ).

So for being awarded the OSM it was not mandatory to have been involved in a war, right?

Dolf

PS: I wonder, for what reason could this one be awarded in 1975?

Have to check the awarding statutes on the Guide I guess. Anyway, not as a long time service award, right? Also not for Afghanistan (from 79 to 89), so?...

Ok, just checked the Guide and the Statute of the Order says among other things that it could be awarded "For accomplishments in military and political training, support for the high level of troop preparation, and developing new military equipment". So no military actions, in war or combat were necessary to be awarded with the OSM, right?

Dolf

Attached is a picture with awarding dates of the Order of Lenin, here you see very good the jerky leaps.

(I hope the dates are correct)

Funny that the highest S/N from these (437,333) was awarded in 76, and 432,781 in 73, therefore before other with lower S/Ns that were awarded after these!

Why didn't they award them by S/N order? That would have made the collector's life much easier

Dolf

Dolf, both are definately awarded pieces. Your number is from around 1975 and the one from Doc is from about 1985. If one of them were mine, i would try to get them researched

Gerd

Gerd,

Thanks a lot for the valuable information!

Dolf

PS: I wonder, for what reason could this one be awarded in 1975?

Have to check the awarding statutes on the Guide I guess. Anyway, not as a long time service award, right? Also not for Afghanistan (from 79 to 89), so?...

Thanks again.

Nice, guys. Both are good research-candidates, i guess.

Gerd,

You think that based on the S/Ns these could have been issued pieces?

If so, any ideas about years they might have been awarded?

Thanks,

Dolf

Mike,

With or without rays it's still imho a nice (and heavy) Soviet Order, often amazingly underrated by collectors!

Dolf

It looks like four rays.

PS: In fact for being a real mirror-reverse it should have 6 rays. I'll have to double check mine better later.

Dolf,

Definately an interesting detail. It looks like four rays. I'm going to have a look at mine.

Doc

Mike,

I had already posted this Order on the S-A Forum quite some time ago, you have some more information about this variation there.

Dolf

Reverse and detail of the four (or five?!) rays.

Dolf

Here is mine, a 3rd Class with S/N 19137.

I was told this is one of the few around with those four rays (kind of mirror-reverse thing) on the reverse of the bottom arm of the four pointed star.

Dolf

Obverse:

Well, we have to keep in mind that fake makers improve fake's quality every year. Prices for rare orders increased up to 5 times since 2002 in some cases. So fakemakers can invest more money in their production. They now use mint technology (instead of cast technology), they use hot enamel. Sometimes they take apart real order and make two fakes using some real parts in each fake. I have dozens of examples, but this is different topic. Forget about fake examples described in McDaniel's book. It was 10 years ago. All fakes changed... And we shoud be aware.

Thanks a lot for the lesson and the updates, Andrei!

This scum is indeed getting better every day!

I've already noticed that in some recent fakes shown here and other Forums. Scary!

Dolf

You?re right!

Dolf...I just saw your collection of Portuguese awards Amazing pieces! CONGRATULATIONS!

Ricardo

Ricardo,

Thank you. My favorite is (probably) the Ordem de Santiago de Espada, but it's a hard decision...

I?m trying to get a "Ordem de Nossa Senhora da Concei??o de Vila Vi?osa" from a dealer in Rio de Janeiro.

Let?s see what happens...

Recently a brest Badge of the Order was sold on eBay, can't remember for how much.

There are a couple of them (Order with ribbon) for sale from an English dealer, but both have some damage on the enamel. Please feel free to PM me if you want to know more details.

Dolf

Obrigado Dolf!

I think that portuguese orders and medals are really beautiful. Many brazilian imperial are very similar to portuguese orders. In a near future I hope I?ll post something here.

Sauda??es!!

Ricardo

Ricardo,

Yes, from some pics I've seen here on the Forum and elsewhere, it seems indeed that the design of some Brazilian imperial awards was infuenced by the design of some Portuguese awards.

Well, probably normal for brother countries I guess

Anyway, these Brasilian Orders and Medals you posted are really gorgeous!

Sauda??es,

Dolf

Ricardo,

Nice pics, felicita??es

I specially like those Brasilian awards!

Funny that the shape of the cross on the Medalha de M?rito Militar looks pretty much like the cross of the Portuguese Ordem de Aviz!

Sauda??es de Portugal

Dolf

N? 47, a Focke Wulf Fw 190A-8R2 of 6/II JG 300, L?bnitz Airfield (Germany), November 44.

Initially the JG 300 was created as a night fighter unit, and in July 44 it was reorganized as an assault group.

This aircraft was flown by second-lieutenant Paul Lixfeld.

Dolf

A couple of recently arrived models.

N? 46, a Nakajima Ki-84 Hayate "Frank" of the 57th Shimbu-tai, special attack corps, May 45.

The mission of this unit was to knock down the B-29 bombers using direct attack technics!

No info about the pilot!

Dolf

Daniel,

Thanks for posting this great pic, it really helps me to fully realize what Mike was considering to clean.

I see what you mean by "...but what happens when those little pink cotton threads get hung up in the bullion threads..."

Now I know that in his case I wouldn't touch it!

I belive this product is definetely more appropriate for solid metal items, and only when it's absolutely necessary to remove dirt.

Even thought I'm not a uniform guy and have not the slightest idea what this is (German Imperial?!), very nice looking uniform btw

Dolf

............................................................................................................................................................

Dolf, thanks for your thoughts, but to be honest, as Rick says, using any kind of abrasive cleaner on the thread would I am sure do serious damage. I even quiver at the thought of using such cleaners on solid metal items, and would NEVER do such a thing to any medals.

............................................................................................................................................................

Thanks to you all.

Hi Mike,

Well, it's not said in the box that this thing is not abrasive, but it's not said either that it is abrasive. Honestely I don't think it's abrasive. This is one of those pretty old products that have been used for generations by many house women to clean silver pieces and I never heard of any damage provoked by using it regularly.

In fact, as said in the box the purpose of this thing is to "clean, make to shine and protect silver pieces".

Anyway, I checked the box and this is called an anti-oxidizing active cotton.

Composition: < 30% hydrocarbons and < 5% soap

"By Appointment to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II; Manufacturers of Antiseptics, Air Freshners, Polishes, Cleaners and Laundry Products; Reckitt Benckiser pic, Slough"

Dolf

I guess I agree with Laurence, it looks more like the result of strafing or rocket attacks, probably followed by a fire. Or a direct point blank artillery hit!

I don't know if a hard landing would provoke that kind of damage!

Dolf

The best thing I know for cleaning silver (it also exists for copper, brass, bronze and other metals) is a product called Duraglit. At least for pieces in solid metal silver, I have no idea how it works in a silver thread!

Anyway, this Duraglit thing comes in metal boxes, and it's a kind of soft cotton sheets, so if done very carefully without touching the cloth (otherwise it would soil the cloth and then you'd have to have it cleaned!) I guess it would clean your silver threads.

Personally I prefer most pieces to remain as they are (in 99% of the cases), if they are just normally worn, but in some very rare cases, especially if some pieces are simply dirty rather than worn, it happens that I clean them using this stuff.

It cleans the dirt and makes them shine, a kind of rejuvenescence cure Anyway, with time the silver or other metal will get that old look again.

Just my two cents,

Dolf

Andrei,

Isn't it possible nowadays to get confirmation of that theory from Russian officials, and/or Archives?

Interesting one anyway!

Btw, if this theory is right, does it mean there would be another variation of the OGPW T3?

Thanks,

Dolf

George,

Thanks for posting this pic.

Well, honestely I'm not sure what would make more damage to a uniform, if the hole of a screwback or this system the Germans used!

Dolf

As far as I can tell I think Andrei is right!

A pinback makes two holes (maybe smaller than the ones made by a screwback, but still two!) and a screwback only one! Right?

Dolf

Here are mine------

All are roughly 1/72 scale. Tiger,Panther,Panzer, Sherman,Stuart,Grant,Patton and a Russian T34

[attachmentid=46890]

Wow, nice! Almost a little army

Dolf

Tavrin's real name was Petr Ivanovich Shilo, former criminal man. Lidiya Shilova in real life was Lidiya Bobrik. German Intillegence made fake IDs with fake names, fake ranks and positions.

Wow, I see!

Everything was fake except the Gold Star (which was real but taken from a real HSU KIA)!

Thanks Andrei

Dolf