Ian Shepherd

A Chief Constables cap from Devon and Cornwall

Ian,

this is a Home Service Helmet as used by the Army 1878 - 1914. In fact I think it is still in use today for some Regimental Bands. The metal edging to the front peak indicates an officer's version. I don't mean that it is an Army helmet but rather the same style as used by the Army.

Any chance of an interior shot?

Stuart

Hi Stuart. an interior shot of the chief constables helmet. Ian

Definitely not a Birmingham City Police helmet: until amalgamation they wore a rose top helmet in the standard Home Office pattern.

Southend-on-Sea County Borough wore a white helmet and styled themself as constabulary rather than police so that would fit.

I am sure that it is South End. The comb vent is A sea shell. Ian

side view of the helmet. Ian

Victorian Halifax Borough Chief Constables helmet. I put this one on the forum some weeks ago but think that it should also be on this post. Ian

Hi Brian, this is a white helmet from the Isle of Man. They were worn by a small number of other forces mainly during the summer months. Ian

Looking at this sword I would normally say it was a 'D' pattern British Constabulary pattern hangar - dating from around 1850. However, the hilt is so different that there can only be three possible explanations - a) Grips were changed at the whims of a Chief Constable ? b) The original handle was damaged and someone has gone to considerable trouble to make their own - but look at all the hand scaling ? c) This was made in an overseas country for Military or, police use.

This was amongst photos recently sent from my collection - and to the best of my memory there are no marks. Has anyone ever seen a short sword of this type - with a similar grip ?

I have never seen one like it Mervyn. Ian

A new addition to my truncheon collection. The largest Irish bog oak truncheon I have ever seen.It is 19" long and carved with Shamrocks,Harps, Hounds and a Tower.It is also carved on the flat top but I can't make out what it represents and I have never seen one carved there before. Ian

I have a correction to make.

The Staffordshire Police Service P.A.M.S. had their own button with the Staffordshire knot on a blue back ground.

When the day comes that I find one I'll post it.

Sorry for the error, I should have known better.

Regards

Brian

Hi Brian, Staffordshire issued a full set of WW11 lapel badges. SC, PR, PAMS & WAPC Ian

I have just acquired a nice modern and also a historical piece for my collection.

Cambridgeshire Constabulary's first female Chief Constables hat

Julie Spence OBE QPM was Chief Constable from 10 December 2005 to 5 September 2010.

A nice piece for your cambridgeshire collection Allan Ian

A superb set of medals Brian.. Once you have got the set you can only go for bars or for different ranks. Ian

Hello Everyone,

Once you have pretty well a complete "type set" of the Special Constabulary Long Service medals, plus the different clasps, what do you collect? Well, for me it was groups which included the SCLSM. One such interesting group is the one I offer for your enjoyment today. As may be seen in the photo the group includes the Defence, SC Long Service and a St. John Ambulance Brigade Medal (S.J.A.B.). Along with the medals came a literal chain of annual membership bars to the St. John Ambulance Association badge. He was a member, according to the "chain" from 1939 (1940 probably marks the first full year of service) until 1961.

An interesting feature of this chain is that it shows the change in design of the membership bars occured with the 1950 bar, which predates the reign of Elizabeth II. I would have thought any change in design to coincide with a change of monarch but I guess the plans were in place before Geo. VI passed away.

This group is named to William C. Holley with the S.J.A.B. medal named to Sgt. W.C. Holley, Hants. From what I can find out "Hants" stands for Hampshire. If this is incorrect perhaps one of the members can set me straight.

I hope you like this intersting little grouping. I left them in their drawer for the photos as the robbons are very fragile.

Regards

Brian

Ian - Top Hats to Helmets took place from the 1860's onwards - and many provincial Forces were slow to change. Your first date is too early, the second still in a possible change period - however, the third would be correct. Find his name and you will know who owned the helmet.

Mervyn, his name was Charles Pole.Chief Constable of Grantham 1873-1876 and then to Halifax. Apart from that I can't find anything more about him but will keep trying Ian.

3 Mervyn,1851-72,1873-1876,1876-1903.

A victorian chain helmet for Halifax Borough Police.formed 1848 and amalgamated into West Yorkshire in 1968. this was almost certaily for a senior officer probably the Chief constable. yorkshire borough's didn't like spending their money unnecessarily.Their initial strength was 25 and was214 at amalgamation.

Thats a very interesting truncheon Mervyn. Ian

Ian - this one is the one in Wiltshire. Note the better paint - they pay higher rates and taxes..............

Chris - it would be difficult - but, possible. Ian has over two hundred truncheons , plus some lovely tipstaffs. Usually, new collectors will invest a considerable sum to acquire the nucleus of a collection - many of mine went in this way, and indeed it still continues today.

The subject of selling collections was raised recently on the Lounge and I fully agreed with the difficulty of selling. You never forget where you bought the really special items - they become part of you.. However, age is no respecter of collectors and so, now the decision has been made to let other people have the 'fun' of collecting.

Mervn, they may have paid higher taxes but they needed more truncheons in the unruly north Ian

3 superb examples Mervyn. Could the 3rd one be for Leigh in Lancashire. Ian

We have many military historians with-in our ranks - so, I am showing this photograph of Boer and British rifle ammunition in the hopes of stimulating a discussion on the merits of both rifles and their ammo.. Hart's Hill was also the scene of an important battle and a distinguished charge - also, worth a description . I think sometimes, that many of our members sit back and wait for the 'same' people to do all the work - then a quick glance and it's forgotten. PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG !

Mervyn do you remember when I nearly brought Duban Airport to a standstill when they found one of these bullet paperweights that I bought of you in my luggage. Ian

Sorry Mervyn but not Victorian, QE2 Staffs and Stoke 1968 to 1974. Ian.

Periscope showing the maker's label.

I had another Duerr periscope whereby the transfer label had been changed to a stamping into the metal lid and would think it was a later, maybe cheaper model.

Tony

Hello.

I'm interested in getting some recommendations for products people over here use for cleaning and preservation of their collections.

In particular, I'm interested in bayonets, so I'm looking for a good gun oil to use (at the moment I'm just using some "151 multi-purpose" oil).

I also want something to safely clean leather, as I recently had the beginnings of some mould on a scabbard, and want to give it a clean to prevent further problems. And for afterwards, anything people recommend for protecting leather.

I did find a place where I can get renaissance wax ( a micro-crystaline wax) which I assume will be good to use to protect wooden grips etc, but does anyone use this stuff on other materials? Can it go on leather?

Any advise will be much appreciated.

Hi, you can certainly use renaissance wax on metal parts a lot of museum's do. But I doen't know about leather. I should follow mervyn's advice. Ian

Devon SC. Cap Badge, Chrome & Enamel. KC. and Special Constable Lapel Badge, Brass & Enamel.

Hi Kevin, I think the DCSC cap badge is for Derbyshire not Devon. Ian

Hi Mervyn, I agree an interesting post. I don't see why the fire and ambulance services can't be included in this section. Ian.

Nottingham County Special Constabulary certificate of service.

County Councils didn't receive official coats of arms until the 1930s so in this instance they made one up. This didn't go down very well with the College of Arms and they subsequently ordered the police authority to desist.

As a stop-gap (until 1937 when Nottinghamshire Council received its official grant) the county constabulary used the chairman of the police authority's personal coat of arms - often called the peacock crest.

Hi Nick, Cheshire Constabulary were another force that got into trouble with the College of Arms.From there inseption they used the Prince of Wales feathers, many years later the college pointed that they had no permission to do so. The Prince then gave his permission and they carried on using them until the early 70s. Being an awkward sod I didn't change my collar dogs for many years until promotion when I was issued with new uniforms. Ian

Hi Mervyn, I am sure that I was once offered a SA police sword that had a hilt similar to the 1895 infantry officers sword. Would this have been one of the earlier Wilkinson ones. Ian