Jonathan Hopkins

Well, the firm was dissolved in 1892, so the sword is pre-1892!

http://www.london-ga...6281/pages/2382

And had been in business since at least 1880 as I found a reference to a young man finding work with them in Cape Town in that year (they are referred to as "wholesalers").

Jonathan

I cannot find any dates form the firm, but they appear to have been a British firm with offices in London and Cape Town. I found a reference to a sword they supplied which sold at auction (from OldSwords.com):

"A sword with the following description was sold by 'Wallis & Wallis' auction house on 13/11/2003 15:28:10.

A South African artillery officers' sword for the Boer Republic, blade 33in. by Gordon Mitchell & Co London, etched with ZAR amidst foliage. Reg"

I hope that is of interest.

Jonathan

Cracking sword, Mervyn! The provenance and other related militaria make it even better. Does the sword bear the officer's name or initials? What is the name of the retailer? Does it say Gordon Mitchell & Co.?

Thank you for sharing this excellent piece of Boer War history!

Jonathan

Mervyn,

I will let Robert know that his input is appreciated. He said he would not be surprised if Wilkinson supplied the firm in the 1960s, but that the sword that is the subject of this thread is not made by Wilkinson (probably Thurkle, as he suspects).

Paul's input and family connection have been very enlightening and have added more depth to your sword's history. If it is alright, I will show this topic to the owner of OldSwords.com, which has a sword maker and retailer database. I am sure he will find this information very enlightening.

All the best (and Merry Christmas!),

Jonathan

I contacted Robert Wilkinson Latham about the possible maker of this sword, and he has kindly allowed me to share his reply here:

I have had a long hard look at the proof mark and surround as well as the etching style of the name and after comparison with other makers (sword makers NOT sellers or importers) etching and proof surround mark and style of this type of work have come to the conclusion (99% sure) that this sword, a so called TRADE sword (This was a swordmakers term for the trade swords they supplied to retailers which has lesser finish and blade etching), was supplied to H.J.Henochsberg of South Africa by

George Thurkle in the period 1901-1910.

1900 1902 23 Lisle St

1903 1906 4 High St, Bloomsbury

1907 1912 21 Denmark Place, Charing Cross Road

No other maker's work matches. I suppose it could well be a Solingen import but the etching style rather precludes this.

Mervyn,

Have you had a chance to get a photo of the brass proof disc? Even if you could describe it I might be able to figure out who made the sword and supplied it to Henochsberg.

All the best,

Jonathan

This is outside of my area, but I do have a link for you that may be somewhat useful:

http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/repro.htm

All the best,

Jonathan

Jonathan - thankyou for that info. - I had gone off on the wrong track, thinking it was a German manufacturer. I had not thought of it being a South African retailer - didn't think we were so sophisticated in those days...

I will try to look up some trade directories to see who they were - I wonder who the actual makers were ?

Mervyn,

A close-up of the proof disc may help us determine who made the blade.

Jonathan

Nice sword, Mervyn. Thank you for sharing!

I do not currently have access to my books, but I think you will find that Henochsberg was a South African retailer (operating out of Johannesburg). Googling "HJ Henochsberg" brings up results for passenger lists to S.A. from 1903, and among the passengers was one Mr. H.J. Henochsberg. Do you have any close-up photos of the proof disk? Do you know the width of the blade where it enters the guard?

By 1900 there were not substantially more British makers than during the Napoleonic period. However, there were more retailers and military outfitters (at least more of them were having their business names etched on the blades). The major private makers c.1900 were Wilkinson and Mole, who supplied many of the tailors and outfitters whose names now adorn many officers' swords (there were others, too, e.g. Fenton Bros. and Thurkle). A few tailors retailed German-made swords, but these are not terribly common.

Most officers would not have bothered replacing their existing swords just to incorporate the new monarch's cypher. That would have been an expensive and impractical undertaking. A broken or defective sword may have been re-hilted or re-bladed and would therefore have had the new cypher, but there would not have been any large scale rush to get an ERVII on a hilt or blade.

There may be fewer P1897s marked with ERVII than VR--I don't really have any way of knowing. I think few collectors would place a premium on an ERVII cypher ( of course that depends on the collector). They are pretty common in my experience. P1897s with GRV cyphers are by far the most common. Wilkinson alone made over 10,000 during the period 1914-18. Edward VIII cyphers are the most rare given his short reign.

All the best,

Jonathan

PS--In summary, you have a nice Edwardian example of a locally retailed British officer's sword!

Below is a P1897 I sold last year. It most likely belonged to Gentleman Cadet, EDMOND GRAY STUART TRUELL, who graduated from the Royal Military College on 7 May 1898. This date would be perfect timing for this officer to have purchased the Hobson sword. Truell was later assigned to service with the Mounted Infantry in S. Africa and the Connaught Rangers.

This P1897 is by Hobson & Sons, and was made and sold between 1897 and 1901. The steel hilt is very nice quality. The incised lines are quite crisp and detailed making for a particularly attractive guard. The steel guard and back strap have lost nearly all the nickel plating, save for a small portion where the guard meets the pommel. This portion was probably preserved by a now-missing sword knot. The hilt components are still tight and sturdy feeling.

The service-sharpened blade is interesting to me in that it differs greatly from Wilkinson blades of the same pattern. The Hobson & Sons blade has squared edges along the blunt section, while those on my Wilkinson swords are rounded. Additionally, the fullers are shorter and the cutting edge is longer. The Hobson blade measures 32 1/2" long and 1 1/16" wide at the shoulder. The fuller begins 1 1/8" from the guard, is a total of 12" long, and terminates at 13 1/8" from the guard. The cutting edge is approximately 19". The Wilkinson blade measures 32 1/2" long and 1" wide at the shoulder. The fuller begins 2" from the guard, is a total of 13 3/4" long, and terminates 15 3/4" from the guard. The cutting edge is approximately 15". The blade's etching is quite nice, and includes standard foliage designs, the late Victorian VR cipher, and the original owner's initials; E.G.S.T.. The blade has some minor pitting, and is very slightly bent out of line.

The leather field service scabbard is ruggedly handsome with its metal furniture. The locket is stamped "WYATT'S REGISTERED No. 20052". I am guessing this is a patented design, and the number refers to a patent number since this same marking appears on other field service scabbards of the period (mostly on scabbards for swords officers of the Indian Army, and also swords to officers of mounted infantry units). I think it also illustrates the wide variety of scabbards in use in thelate 19th century.

Dan,

Thank you very much for your kind comments. These later patterns are easily dismissed as common, or less elegant than earlier swords. However, when given the chance to dig below the surface and uncover information on the men who carried these weapons, these common patterns become something a bit more.

Jonathan

Dan,

Thank you for the additional information. I should have thought to look to the style of the crown to help determine the age. I appreciate your input!

Jonathan

Graham & Mervyn,

Thank you very much for your help. Looking into the unit history I think Mervyn is right about its age--post-WWI The APC became the Royal Army Pay Corps.

Jonathan

I just came across an old hat badge I bought when I was about 15 or so. I bought it then because I liked the looks of it and it was very inexpensive. Can anyone give me an idea as to the approximate date it might have been made and what APC might mean (assuming I am interpreting those initials correctly)?

Thank you,

Jonathan

Excellent sword as well as the collection and the research is so complete.

Well done.

I especially like items that span time periods, Victorian to Edwardian as in this case as well as Geo V to Geo VI etc. This post was a most enjoyable read on my last day of my vacation.

Thanks for taking the time to post this interesting topic.

Regards

Brian

Thank you, Brian! :beer:

Jonathan - valuable information and I thought the cuttings were most interesting. The four swords together are impressive - any more in sight ?

Mervyn,

No more on the horizon at this point. I think that in order for me to get another P1895/97 it would have to have belonged to a very interesting officer (or be very inexpensive! ). I really do like the pattern, even though it is rather common and not as well-liked by collectors as earier Victorian swords. However, with four P1895/97s now in my collection I think I'd like to find an earlier sword--preferably something from the 1857-58 period.

Jonathan

The Pattern 1895 Infantry Officer's Sword was introduced 1896 following the introduction of a new blade in 1892. The Pattern 1892 blade (said to have been designed by Colonel Fox, Chief Inspector of Physical Training at the Board of Education) was a radical departure from the previous cut and thrust blade of the Pattern 1845/1854 Infantry Officer's Sword. The P1892 blade is a wicked thrusting blade that has a dumbbell cross section for just over half of its length. The plated steel bowl guard of the P1895 offered superior protection compared to its predecessors and was to have either a 5 inch or 5 1/2" grip, depending on the size of the officer's hand. The 1896 order called for officers to re-hilt or replace their swords. Not all officers had adopted the P1892 blade when it was introduced, therefore some P1895s have the older P1845/1854 blades and others have the newer P1892 blades.

Robson, in Swords of the British Army, cites an article from the Journal of the Society for Army Historical Research from 1934 in which a correspondent recalls the that this pattern (1895 Pattern) served him excellently in hand-to-hand-fighting against the Dervishes in the Sudan, in a way that its predecessor could not have done. He does not supply an exact quote. I found a few nuggets in a few period newspapers that might be of interest:

Just for fun, a few quick pics snapped at sunset (hence the poor lighting). Here are the P1892/95/97s currently in my small collection of Victorian military swords. In order from top to bottom they are a P1854/95 infantry officer's sword which belonged to Maj.-Gen. A.J.F. Reid of the Indian Army, a P1854/95 infantry officer's Sword which belonged to Lt.-Col. G.H. Neale of the 3rd/Middlesex, late of the Queen's Royal West Surrey Regiment, a P1892/95 infantry officer's sword which belonged to Lt.-Col. H.G. Burton of the 53rd Sikh Infantry, late of the 4th Sikh Infantry, and a P1897 infantry officer's sword which belonged to Maj. W.H. Wilkin of the Sherwood Foresters.

Here is an excerpt from The Gazetteer of Upper Burma vol. 1, pp.345-46, by J. George Scott and J.P. Hardiman, which gives a bit of detail regarding Burton's time in Burma:

Mervyn,

The etching is fine, but not quite as crisp as is found on some swords. Some areas are better. The section that reads "Henry Wilkinson Pall Mall London" is quite worn, as it some of the etching where the fuller terminates, but other than that it is fine.

Jonathan

Nice example Jonathan. What is the blade length and were you fortunate enough to get the field scabbard ? I've never really thought about it until now, but I wonder what difference to the price the Victoria cypher makes ? Edward V11 th. swords are generally regarded as having a higher price because they were only made for a comparatively short time.

Mervyn,

I have yet to take any measurements. The blade is probably around 31"-32" in length, and the sword is probably just under 2lbs. I am not sure if the VR cypher commands a premium. They are more rare than ERVII or GRV, but less rare than ERVIII. I don't place much value on the cypher other than that I try to keep my collecting within the Victorian period. I did not get a brown leather field service scabbard with the sword, but I am not sure it would have had one. When the sword was made (1892), steel was still standard for officers below field rank. It is possible that when Burton had the sword re-hilted in 1896 he may have bought a leather scabbard, but even at that point they were not universal (not even in India). I believe that the steel scabbard that came with the sword is the only one it has ever known. It does not appear to have been plated, so it is not specifically a dress scabbard.

Thank you for your questions and interest!

Jonathan

Lovely piece! A slice of the old world approaching the new at the fin de siecle.

Thank you, Helen! I used to dislike this pattern. It was too "new" for me. Over the past year and a half I have some to really like it and have adopted several examples. :)

Every once in a while a deal comes along, and in spite of ambiguous provenance, I cannot resist the desire to acquire. Just such a deal came along a few weeks ago. A dealer listed a nice British P1892/95 infantry officer's sword. The serial number dates the blade to 1892, however the hilt is that of the 1895 pattern. I was quite excited at the prospect of getting such an early P1892 blade and another P1895 hilt (I like it better than the P1897 hilt--its larger piercings make it a bit more elegant in my mind). Upon receiving the sword I noted that it had been cleaned with some sort of abrasive, and was a bit scratched, but still in quite acceptable condition. The blade has all the standard etchings of the time including the VRI cypher and scrolling foliage. The etching is a bit worn, but is still visible. The hilt was probably added by Wilkinson in 1896 as it is stamped "STEEL HILT". All in all I think it is a great example of an early late-pattern officer's sword.

In addition, it is a Wilkinson and therefore numbered and researchable. The owner was even kind enough to have his initials put on the blade! And what a fortuitous thing he did, too, since the proof book entry is blank for this blade. Undaunted, I combed through the index of the 1893 Hart's List (accurate through December, 1892) and found all matches for the initials "H.G.B.". There were several matches for these initials, many of which could be excluded from the shortlist of candidates due to their branches of service. In the end two possibilities emerged; Henry Gerard Burton and Henry G. Browne, the only infantry officers in my list, and both serving in the Indian Army. I researched each man to see if I could discover if one was more likely than the other. I did not find anything terribly conclusive. However, Burton seemed like a stronger candidate as he was the only one of the two men to see active service, and in my mind such an officer would be more likely to jump on the bandwagon when the new blade was introduced in 1892. Additionally, the sword was re-hilted in 1896, the year in which Browne died. I was probably a bit biased because I would have preferred that Burton be the original owner since he saw a good amount of action, but I feel that my hunch is given more strength since the blade was sharpened for service. So for now I am satisfied that this sword was purchased by the eager Lt. Burton in 1892, several months before being promoted captain and while seconded for service with the Burma Military Police.

Henry Gerard Burton was born April 22nd, 1863 in the "East Indies", the third son (of nine!) of Colonel Edmond Francis Burton, Madras Staff Corps, and Georgiana Burton. Burton attended King William's College from 1874-80, and thereafter the Royal Military College. Upon completing his education in 1881 he was commissioned as 2nd lieutenant in the Bedfordshire Regiment (22 October). Soon thereafter, on 24 March 1882, Burton transferred as a lieutenant to Prince Albert's (Somerset Light Infantry). He joined the 2nd Battalion in India, where he would remain for the balance of his career. 21 May 1885 he was attached to the 16th Madras Infantry as a wing officer. He had a very brief period of service with the 33rd Madras Infantry before being attached (i16 September 1886) as an officiating wing officer with the 4th Sikh Infantry, Punjab Frontier Force. In 1887 Burton left Prince Albert's (Somerset Light Infantry) and transferred to the Staff Corps in India, serving as Officiating Quarter Master with the 4th Sikh Infantry. Thus began his career with the Indian Army.

Burton continued to serve with the 4th Sikh Infantry as a Wing Officer and Quarter Master until 1890. It was in that year that he was attached to the Burma Military Police as Assistant Commandant. He continued to serve with the BMP through the Burmese conflicts of 1891-93 (Medal with Clasp). During his service in Burma he was promoted captain (22 October 1892). he served with the BMP until 1894 when he went on furlough. Upon returning to the 4th Sikh Infantry he was whisked away to help relieve the besieged Chitral (Medal with Clasp). In 1896 he was attached to the 1st Sikh Infantry. On 30 August 1897, Burton was 2nd in command of the 4th Sikhs and was granted the local rank of major. 10 July 1901 he was promoted to full major, 3 February 1903 he was made a temporary lieutenant-colonel, and 1 June 1904 he was promoted to full lieutenant-colonel (53rd Sikhs [Frontier Force]). Burton died of unknown causes in the Parish of St. Thomas, Exeter.

Burton's personal life--rather his family--is quite interesting. Burton was married at Cheltenham, Gloustershire in 1900. I am not sure if he and his wife (name unknown) has children. However, I do know that Burton is one of 9 sons of General Edmond Francis Burton of the Madras Staff Corps, all of whom served in the military and mostly in the Indian Army! General E.F. Burton was a keen hunter and avid writer, and authored several books including Reminiscences of Sport in India, An Indian Olio, and Trouting in Norway. By my count I have nine more swords to find in order to have the complete Burton collection!

Sources:

Various editions of Hart's Annual Army List

History of the 1st Sikh Infantry

King William's College Register

Various issues of the London Gazette

Ancestry.com

My thanks to John Hart for his research assistance!

My latest acquisition is a British Pattern 1892/95 infantry officer's sword by Wilkinson. It was sold in 1892, and would originally have had a brass Gothic hilt. It was re-hilted in 1896 as a result of the new regulations calling for the new steel hilt approved in 1895. The blade bears the owner's initials "HGB", and will be the subject of a future write-up.

Jonathan