Jeff Mc William

Hi Jeff,

May I know which exactly is the inscription (i.e. Number, name, unit etc ?) on the back of the disk ?

I'm asking this because I'm trying to record all the surviving examples of this Order.

Many Thanks in advance

Regards

Lilo

Hi Lilo. Yes,by all means. This is Lot 338 in the Spink Sale 23rd July 2009. Details as follows :

MAJOR

T.J.W.Prendergast

ROYAL ENGINEERS

No.669

?1,000 to ?1,200 if you care to bid for it !

Best of luck in your research, I too am desperately searching for the "Roll". Regards. Jeff

Hello -Jeff, welcome to GMIC. I have the rolls for the 1879 medal and I do not remember any ref. to the 1877-9 bar. Not that I would doubt Thomas - 'The Tank' - for a minute, but they are usually in the combinations as already listed.

The 1879 is the valuable clasp - has gone up in recent years and a basic one to a standard unit - about ?400/500. ($640/800). We had one to a Rorke's Drift survivor some years ago and it recently was resold in the UK for the highest price paid for a non'gallantry' group - about ? 35,000

gulp !! incredible !! to think that I once had one to the 13th Foot with the bar "1878-9" which I purchased for ?2 !!

Northeast Medals - Zulu wars

This is a fantastic site to visit

regards

Thomas

Hi Thomas. Many thanks for your interesting and prompt reply. Yes, this is indeed a fantastic site. I have learned alot since I "logged-on". There are some very knowledgeable and helpful people here, including (if I may say so) yourself. My thanks again for your help. Regards Jeff

I have heard of an exceedingly rare bar to the Zulu War Medal, viz : "1877-9" Does this really exist ? I must say, it seems highly unlikely since surely this is already covered by the "1877-8-9" bar, although it has been mentioned in some past publications. Could someone confirm this and possibly show this "doubting Thomas" an example. Regards Thomas..I mean Jeff !

Hi all. I have just "lifted" this B&W image from an old DNW Catalogue(I'm sure they wont mind !). It shows the "International Plague Conference Memorial Medal (Mukden)". I wonder if someone could tell me a little more about it (ie when was this ?) and what colours was the ribbon etc. Thanks for any help anyone can give. Jeff.

Jeff,

I've seen the piece several times and it's one of the few with intact ribbon and top bar. The way the ribbon folds is distinct to the Prendergast medal.

At one time, Spink carried the book and I think Ray Holdich had a copy or two.

Hi Jeff. Once again,many thanks for your invaluable help re the medal for the Military Order of the Dragon. But,before I finally let you go on this,I wonder if I might ask for your help once again :

While surfing the Webb for more information on this,the following medal also "popped-up" under the same heading in a USA group to Lt.Gen Adna R. Chaffee,having been sold by Cowan's Auctioneers(Cincinnati) on Nov 7-8 2007 for $28,750.00 :

May I ask if this medal is a variation of the same Order...or something entirely different ?? I must say,it does seem to have some connection,and in fact Gen.Chaffee's group had two such medals each with a different broach setting,in addition to the previous medal which you have already identified. Could you tell me a little more re this one please ? Many thanks in advance. Jeff Mac

The Military Order of the Dragon was founded in the Forbidden City by American officers who had taken part in the fighting in China. Membership was open to US and allied officers and diplomats who had served in Peking and Tientsin during that period.

The medals were struck by Bailey, Banks & Biddle, of Philadelphia, and are arguably the most dramtic design of any of the veterans' organizations of the era.

Medal to British recipients are the most commonly found; those to Americans are much less common. While allied members are listed on the order's rolls, nobody has ever seen a piece to any other nationality.

This looks like the medal to Major Prendergast, Royal Engineers, which is one of the illustrated examples in "American Society Medals: An Identification Guide", by Lee Bishop and J. Robert Elliott.

Hi Jeff. Many thanks indeed for this interesting information both here and on the "China" thread : You are quite correct this is indeed the medal to Major TJW Prendergast Royal Engineers,...incredible,!! how did you know that from the Obverse?? It is being offered for sale as Lot 338 in the next Spink Sale 23 July 2009 (est ?1,000 to ?2,000) if you want to make a bid ! Thanks again for your time and trouble, I shall now be searching for the book ! regards Jeff

Hi. I have also posted this on the USA thread in the hope that someone can identify it and tell me a bit more about it.

The reverse is inscribed : "China 1900" "Military Order of the Dragon" with the recipient's name engraved in the centre. I have seen this in both British and USA medal groups,but there are never any further details given.

Can anyone help please ? Jeff

Hi. Can somebody "out there" help a confused old man ?

I have often seen this medal listed as a USA decoration, but it looks decidedly Chinese to me and is not listed in either Belden or Kerrigan (the only two books I have on USA OD&Ms). Can anyone tell me when it was issued,how many were issued, and where I can find any other details concerning this medal. I have seen it with at least three UK groups in the past,but have never seen any citations etc concerning it. At a guess I would say it was something to do with the Boxer uprising. Thanks in advance to anyone who can help. Jeff

Gentlemen: Thank you both very much for your information and expert guidance on this most intriguing topic.

Alex; So I guess I can rule out Manley as one of the three male recipients. However, I must say it would still be interesting to know who these people were !

Mike; You mention Florence Nightingale. It is to our eternal shame that she and her nursing staff (some of whom died on active duty) never received any awards from Britain...not even the "bog standard" campaign medal..specifically for their services in the Crimea, although I do believe that Miss Nightingale herself received a special broach which was presented to her by Queen Victoria. A disgraceful lapse of appreciation for these fine women's service and sacrifice.

Mike. Have I read this correctly ??

On the "..ordensmuseum.." site you kindly gave me it says that a total of 2997 awards were given,of which less than 100 were of non-German origin,and 3 were awarded to men !!

Any idea who these three men were ? Was one by any chance Surgeon W.G.N.Manley VC of the British Army attached to the Prussian 22nd Inf Div ? Whoever they were, this sounds most unusual ! Jeff

Alex & RAO, Thank you both for your prompt repies. What excellent sites you have introduced me too. A thousand thanks. Jeff

Hi all. Sorry to be such a "dumpkoff" but I wonder if members can identify this rather strange "Iron Cross" Is it a non-combatants (red cross staff ) ?? Would be grateful if someone can identify this and perhaps tell me a little more about it. Also,if possible to provide a better picture, Obv & reverse. Many thanks in advance. Jeff

Jean-Paul. Have just viewed this excellent ribbon chart...thank you v much for guiding me to it, and of course my thanks too to Antonio Prieto Barrio for his superb work. Regards Jeff

Can I ask if a ribbon chart is available for Japanese Orders, Decorations and Campaign Medals ?

If anyone has compiled one,I would love to see it. Thanks in anticipation. Jeff