Ardent

Hallo Leigh,

An internet search probably would give the history better than I could, as it tends to decend into a political debate, (and outside the scope of this Forum) as far as I am aware the Argentinians never settled the islands and showed very little interest into them, the turning point being the discovery of the large amounts of oil and mineral resources in the seas there-abouts, by obtaining the Falkland Isles the Argentinian National waters could be far extended out into the Atlantic.

Kevin in Deva.

Long history of animosity between the countries going back 300 years although those on the islands claim British familiarity and no Argentine-supporting residents

Becket coming under fire for favouring Argentine relations over recognition of British losses

Electronic warfare (EW) is the use of the electromagnetic spectrum to deny its effective use by an adversary while optimizing its use by friendly forces. Electronic warfare has three main components: electronic support, electronic attack, and electronic protection

Electronic support

Electronic support (ES) is the passive use of the electromagnetic spectrum to gain intelligence about other parties on the battlefield in order to find, identify, locate and intercept potential threats or targets.

This intelligence, known as ELINT, might be used directly by fire-control systems for artillery or air strike orders, for mobilization of friendly forces to a specific location or objective on the battlefield, or as the basis of electronic attack or electronic protection actions. Because ES is conducted passively, it can be performed without the enemy ever knowing it. Its counterpart, SIGINT, is continuously performed by most of the world's countries in order to gain intelligence derived from other parties' electronic equipment and tactics.

An older term for ES is electronic support measures (ESM).

Electronic attack

Electronic attack (EA) is the active or passive use of the electromagnetic spectrum to deny its use by an adversary. Active EA includes such activities as jamming, deception, active cancellation, and EMP use.

Passive EA includes such activities as the use of chaff, towed decoys, balloons, radar reflectors, winged decoys, and stealth.

EA operations can be detected by an adversary due to their active transmissions. Many modern EA techniques are considered to be highly classified.

An older term for EA is electronic countermeasures (ECM).

Electronic protection

Electronic protection (EP) includes all activities related to making enemy EA activities less successful by means of protecting friendly personnel, facilities, equipment or objectives. EP can also be implemented to prevent friendly forces from being affected by their own EA.

Active EP includes such activities as technical modifications to radio equipment (such as frequency-hopping spread spectrum).

Passive EP includes such activities as the education of operators (enforcing strict discipline) and modified battlefield tactics or operations.

Older terms for EP include electronic protective measures (EPM) and electronic counter countermeasures (ECCM).

Taken from Wikipedia

Hope this helps

unfortunately Wikipedia is grossly mis-informed by people who know "something" of the subject

this extract is sort of accurate but lacks finese

Hiya Ardent!!

Could you expand on that a little bit .... what exactly does electronic warfare include?

Jim

ok - Electronic Warfare is the detection, analasys and destruction of enemy use of the EM spectrum - at its most basic level it's receiving an enemy's radar transmissions at up to twice their receiving range (if they have a range of 50 miles you know about them 50 miles before they know you're there) and identifying who/what they are and taking appropriate countermeasures or counter-countermeasures (jamming)

can't tell you much more or I'd have to kill you after

And speaking of sails .... we know talk of harnessing the power of the atom....

Electronic Warfare - passed at Leading Seaman rate (my original branch before I went green)

wow the memories all came back of my trip to all the places did you know that all the german grave stones are all black??

There are a few different styles of German stone/cross in the area:

In Commonwealth cemetaries you'll find a very square white stone of the same marble as our own but with rough cut lettering under an impression of the Iron Cross

Some cemetaries have thin black metal crosses with a name on each side of each cross-arm - they're about half inch thick and perfectly in line vertically, horizontally and diagonally (the only exceptions being small round rough stones between the ranks for the Jewish soldiers)

The majority of stones however are laid on the ground rather than upright and there were quite a few mass graves in the area too

Not sure on this one Bob, I have seen 'FE' before, which is Flight Engineer in the RAF circa WW2. This is not an Australian badge, as we have a half-wing with an 'E' on it to indicate engineer, regardless of whatever specialisation they have. I would hazard a guess at Armaments Engineer, though it could also be Airframe or Aeronautics. Sorry, no definative answer this time...

Regards;

Johnsy

Air Electronics Operator - the EW (Electronic Warfare) specialists that man Nimrod, E3D, etc

Been talking to my younger brother about this, he left the RN only 10 years ago, he cannot remember ever seeing the para badge worn on the upper right arm in the blue unform. He was at times involved with the Submarine Parachute Assistance Group. He tells me they wore the badge on the upper right arm only in No8s/AWD and combats. Blue uniform, left cuff.

Of course BR81 should tell the story but it's not on line that I can find. Maybe as a serving member you could consult your local Master/Mistress at Arms and find the truth through ammendments. Also of interest to people I'm sure would be which arm a badge was worn on. I'm pretty sure also that there was a limit on the amount of badges that could be worn. i.e. if you were para qualified, ship's diver, marksman, helo controller, seacat aimer, navi's yeoman, commando trained et al you couldn't wear the lot. Far too transatlantic

What's that branch badge on the right arm? Was I seen off ?

Right - just to clear up one point - the Submarine Parachute Assistance Group badge is completely different from the trained parachutist badge (para wings) and is an AdQual and therefore on the right wrist (oh - and only one at a time!)

Any idea when the dress regs changed? Certainly during the 70's they were worn on the left cuff.

To my knowledge from the late 70's onwards it was only Pilot/Observer on the left arm - para wings on right shoulder - branch right arm - rate left arm - everything else right cuff

What is AdQuals?

Additional Qualifications

things like Bomb Aimer, Seacat Guider, Navigator's Yeoman - used to be Commando Qualified (like myself) but that's been "unified" so it's now on the upper left arm

Interesting, I spent my last two years (77-79) in the mob with the RM and they all wore army type wooly pullies with the army type wings. Only ever knew one MAWC guy who was with the section at Poole. The only Cdo unit I can think of that would have them would be 148 Bty RA whose radio ops were all matelots but you never saw them in blue anyway. Interesting! Incidentally the RN never wore them on the blue wooly pully or any other trade or SQ badge, only rank badges. Interestingly I noticed Camilla's beau at I think last years Remeberance service wearing his Para wings army fashion on his frock coat on the right upper arm. Perhaps this is because he already wears aviators wings on his left cuff but may be because he do what he likes. Only time I've ever seen the wing worn this way by a matelot apart from the aforementiontioned radio ops who dressed like squaddies anyway.

As to the cap badge, time to dig out the die flaw pics again Not to mention the slider is dodgy on a K/C badge and probably on a white metal Q/C though I do think I've seen the staybright with a slider.

Only RN Pilots and Observers wear their flying wings on the left cuff - all parachute wings are on the upper right arm with AdQuals on the lower right cuff

Hiya,

Tony, very nice pictures and a great thread.I am also looking to travel to Ypres this year as i have a relative buried at the Hooge crater cemetery, one John Tommy Marsh 1st Bt Lancashire Fusiliers KIA 29/09/18. I am thinking of travelling by eurostar to Brussels and then onto Ypres, does anyone have any advice on wheather this is the best route to take via train and any info on places to stay.

Cheers Smiler.

Unfortunately as Ieper is on "dead end" rail line it's the only way to travel (it's on the Kortrijk-Poperinghe line - Poperinghe being the end of the line)

Friendly and relatively cheap and convienient places to stay would be the Old Tom, Sweerd, Regina or Sultan hotels - all of which are on the Grote Markt or market square and 2 minutes walk from the Menin Gate

They can be found online relatively easily

Jim, where does the naval saying "Pass me another cabin boy, I've split this one mate" orginate?

Same place as Rum Bum and Baccy (someone's obviously not using enough masking tape!)

The fireman in the middle, the medal on the left.... looks rather British doesnt it?

several of the long-standing Brantweer band have the MBE for their services to this

cheers mate

here's the Pax Gate and the Ijzer tower at Dixmuide

you get a great view of the area from the top of the tower - there's an aluminium plate all round the rampart with lines engraved and painted in it showing directions and distances to all the major landmarks around the region (if you can cope with the strangly unsupported and "open" metal staircase that spirals up from the viewing area in the cross arms)

The Australian memorial at Hill 60 and the Belgian memorial at Whitesheet.

Tony

WWII bullet holes again

Some memorials starting off with the Belgian one for both wars in the centre of Ypres.

If you visit Ieper and look at this you can see the bullet holes from the 2nd war very evident in the bronze

In Flanders Fields Museum

The In Flanders Fields Museum is located at the heart of the city of Ypres in the restored Cloth Hall on the Market Square. here is how the city of Ypres depicts this Museum : "A visit to the interactive In Flanders Fields Museum takes you back to the Great War of 1914-1918. You experience history at first hand as a soldier or a nurse, as an inhabitant of Ypres or as a refugee? You will not only witness with your own eyes the destruction of a whole region and the atrocities this war brought about but you will also experience the hope and resurrection of a city like Ypres. Historical artefacts, suggestive sound and light evocations, documentary films and models alternate."

Again, this is a Museum I recommend the visit.

Below is the Cloth Hall.

Ch.

Pic : ? Christophe ? ChR Collection

Can I remind people to support the Last Post Association (www.lastpost.be) and take some time to be under the Menin Gate at 2000 one evening

The Ballard of Tommy Atkins

Rudyard Kipling ? 1892

I went into a public- ?ouse to get a pint o? beer,

The publican ?e up an sez, ?We serve no red-coats here.?

The girls behind the bar they laughed an? giggled fit to die,

I outs into the street again an? to myself sez I:

O it?s Tommy this, an? Tommy that, an? ?Tommy go away?;

But it?s ?Thank you, Mister Atkins,? when the band begins to play-

The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,

O it?s ?Thank you Mr Atkins,? when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,

They gave a drunk civilian room, but ?adn?t none for me;

They sent me to the gallery or round the music-?alls,

But when it comes to fighting?, Lord! They?ll shove me in the stalls!

For it?s Tommy this, an? Tommy that, an? ?Tommy wait outside?;

But it?s ?Special train for Atkins,? when the trooper?s on the tide-

The troopship?s on the tide, my boys, the troopship?s on the tide,

O it?s ?Special train for Atkins,? when the trooper?s on the tide.

Yes, makin? mock o? uniforms that guard you while you sleep

Is cheaper than them uniforms, an? they?re starvation cheap;

An? hustlin? drunken soldiers when they?re goin? large a bit

Is five times better business than paradin? in full kit.

Then it?s Tommy this, an? Tommy that, an? ?Tommy ?ow?s yer soul??

But it?s ?Thin red line of ?eroes? when the drums begin to roll-

The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,

O it?s ? Thin red line of ?eroes,? when the drums begin to roll.

We aren?t no thin red ?eroes, nor we aren?t no blackguards too,

But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;

An? if sometimes our conduck isn?t all your fancy paints,

Why single men in barricks don?t grow into plaster saints;

While it?s Tommy this, an? Tommy that, an? ?Tommy fall be?ind,?

But it?s ?Please to walk in front, sir,? when there?s trouble in the wind-

There?s trouble in the wind, my boys, there?s trouble in the wind,

O it?s ?Please to walk in front, sir,? when there?s trouble in the wind.

You talk o? better food for us, an? schools, an? fires, an? all:

We?ll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.

Don?t mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face

The Widow?s Uniform is not the soldier-man?s disgrace.

For it?s Tommy this, an? Tommy that, an? ?Chuck ?im out, the brute!?

But it?s ?Saviour of ?is country? when the guns begin to shoot;

An? it?s Tommy this, an? Tommy that, an? anything you please;

An? Tommy ain?t a bloomin? fool - you bet that Tommy sees!

Apart from 1982 when we got an un-naturally broadcast version of war the UK sailor, marine, soldier and airman gets a really bad press without any understanding of the low standards of peace-time support given to the underpaid volunteer in this country (I've had many a "conversation" with 2yr conscripts who spent their time "in Catterick" who think we have it easy these days)

I volunteered in 1981 at the age of 16 - I was in the Falklands in 1982, did my commando course at the end of the year, was in Northern Ireland the same year and back again in 1984/1985, involved in 1st Gulf and managed to survive 17 years in but we still have those that think 39/45 was the end of all "real" service

I have the utmost respect for ANYONE who volunteered to serve and also for those who served their country regardless of which conflict they were in but I think we need to remember the Ballad of Tommy Atkins and recognise all those who do the things we don't want to do any more

I'm reminded of the Ballard of Tommy Atkins (please search it online as I don't have time at the moment) which pre-dates the First World War and sums it up perfectly

I'm a bit biased as I've been on the wrong end of a WWII late-entry conscript with home-service only who swore blind that anyone called (or volunteering) to the colours after 1945 didn't do real service (I'm a 17year volunteer)

Gentlemen,

Please take time to view the two videos in this Mail on Sunday news-sheet, which gives you a birdseye view of what it's like for the modern infantry in Battle. Taken fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan, with helmet mounted cameras, I think you'll agree that there is no questioning their bravery and it makes our nations "celebrity/sporting heroes" look like a bunch of overpaid tosspots.

Graham.

http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/live/a...e#StartComments

Apart from 1982 when we got an un-naturally broadcast version of war the UK sailor, marine, soldier and airman gets a really bad press without any understanding of the low standards of peace-time support given to the underpaid volunteer in this country (I've had many a "conversation" with 2yr conscripts who spent their time "in Catterick" who think we have it easy these days)

I volunteered in 1981 at the age of 16 - I was in the Falklands in 1982, did my commando course at the end of the year, was in Northern Ireland the same year and back again in 1984/1985, involved in 1st Gulf and managed to survive 17 years in but we still have those that think 39/45 was the end of all "real" service

I have the utmost respect for ANYONE who volunteered to serve and also for those who served their country regardless of which conflict they were in but I think we need to remember the Ballad of Tommy Atkins and recognise all those who do the things we don't want to do any more

The Oakleaf (not clover) goes on the ribbon of the campaign where he was mentioned - it would go on the War Medal if it was for service in an area where no campaign medal was awarded

In service outside wartime (i.e., no War Medal) if it was not in a campaign area where either a medal was awarded (Korea et al) or the General Service Medal/Campaign Service Medal then it would go directly on the jacket

It will not be placed on any other "bravery" award

Most Mentions are cited in the London Gazette

Hello,

Thank you very much for this info, so it would mean that for example in my case iff this person has not real bravery awards for example but he does hold the : Africa star he could wear a clover leaf on it.

Iff he was awarded nothing then he does only gets a copy of the London gazette?

Strange for sure

Cordial greetings,

Officially, an action or course of conduct worthy of a mention in an officer's despatches to his superiors

The oakleaf is awarded regardless of other awards held/pending and would be fixed to the ribbon of the relevant campaign medal or to the tunic when no campaign medal awarded

In typical understated British fashion, it meant something brave or industrious worthy of note but not quite enough for a medal. If the offcier or OR in question had a medal, he got the oakleaf. If not, then he had to be satisfied with a copy of the London Gazette with the relevant Citation: "Lt. Smith of the XXth battalion, the YYY Regiment, distinguished himself in the attack at Guancourt on 5 september, 1916." (or whatever - made that one up!)

Peter

Sippers and Gulpers

Sometimes a mess of RN ratings would 'pool' their rum ration into one large drinking vessel which would be passed round for each to take a sip or gulp (that being decided at the start of the round)

Also the rum ration was often used as a kind of currency among the ratings and a sip or gulp from one's ration recognised as payment for deals or favours.

the daily issue of rum at its demise (31st July 1970) was 1/3rd of a gil added to twice its volume of water (neat for Senior Rates)

it was broken down into 3 gulpers, one or more could be given to your oppo for good favours received

each gulp was sub-divided into 3 sippers for minor favours

a more random measure was to offer whatever you had left for the recipient to finish off - to drink to the "sandy bottoms"

I could go on but I think I can already hear the snoring

Taken from the RTE We bpage at: http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0701/somme.html

Ceremonies take place on Somme anniversary

01 July 2006 23:16

Ceremonies have taken place in Ireland and abroad to mark the start of the 90th anniversary of the Battle of the Somme.

President Mary McAleese was among the dignitaries to lay a wreath at the War Memorial at Islandbridge in Dublin in honour of Irishmen who died in the battle.

Over 200 members of the Defence Forces took part, the first large-scale involvement of Irish troops in ceremonies to mark the First World War battle.

The Minister for Education, Mary Hanafin, represented the Government at ceremonies which also took place this morning in Thiepval and Guillemont in France.

More than 3,000 Irish men were among the half a million soldiers who died in the battle in northeastern France which began on 1 July, 1916.

END OF REPORT.

Its about time Ireland remembered her brave war dead with pride instead of shame, May God Bless them

Kevin in Deva

It's a shame that in 2004 Mary McAleese chose 11th November for her Inauguration and virtually drove past the war memorial without even acknowledging it

There was no recognition of this date on a day when the whole of Ireland's "upper echelons" was out in force for a national day

Rumor has it that he is branching out. Too much money to spend, I guess. I have been told he is getting into other high-end gallantry groups and singles but, much as is the case with his VC accumulating strategy, this is driven by value, scarcity, and "sexiness" and not by any degree of phaleristic knowledge. I think your RN MM group -- so much rarer than a modest VC! -- may be safe from Lord Ashcan.

oh poo - I was looking forward to that extra ?50 to see me through my dotage