Manny

I agree entirely with you, Dietrich! My post was not a dig at you, by the way. I was actually thinking of something I read about "L/64 A" Assmann FSA (LW)! I respect your abilities not just as a researcher and historian of the RK but also as a writer, even if we disagree on some points.

On one level - and you have clearly understood my meaning and empathise with it - I remain absolutely open-minded about 'rounders' and other variants. After all, apart from anything else, Dr Doehle was not prompted to get heavy with manufacturers purely because of non-regulation Ritterkreuze with zinc and brass cores and white metal frames. He also intended to signal to other, non-approved firms that manufacture of the RK without a licence was not allowed. This is probably what informed his decision, as head of the LDO, to forbid retail sales, thereby removing any incentive to produce the RK for non-approved firms.

So, between September 1939 and March 1941, there must have been all sorts of variants around, some of which would have been acquired by recipients for everyday wear or whatever. We know that there were variants. The photo posted by Bryan and the existence of the "half-ringers" etcetera prove this beyond reasonable doubt. My caution arises from my belief that 90% or more of dealers are crooks and that, in the absence of proof that would satisfy, say, a court of law or inquiry, any Ritterkreuz des EK touted by a dealer or someone close to the dealer fraternity - anyone close to, say, that whole MAX Mafia or the Hamburg Harlots - as a 'rounder' or a variant made in 1940 or early 1941 by Helmut Splink und Sohn must be considered with much circumspection.

Clear though the images Bryan posted are, in terms of showing something that could well be a 'rounder', they are not sufficiently clear, as I am sure you will all agree, to provide a basis for detailed comparison with any cross offered as a 'rounder' by dealers or, recently, a certain well known collector of Ritterkreuze who purchased a genuine and very rare Juncker neusilber and zink RK from me last year.

PK

I was very impressed by what Paddy had to say