Graham Stewart

Daft question this, but why has the Victory ribbon(with MID) been seperated from the MC & BWM, as I was under the impression they had to remain together and each row is skew-wiff?

Nice Wolseley helmet and belonging to the Maltese Police. The Kings Crown on the badge indicates worn sometime between 1902 & 1953, but to get a better idea someone in our "British & Colonial Police Forces" section may be able to give you better details of when it was worn. See this link;-

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showforum=7

It does appear that the equipping of regiments with the new SD was a staggered affair as seen in more notes;-

NF Depot, Newcastle-on-Tyne, 24th May 1902;-

"During the month the first installment of the new Service Dress has been taken into wear by those entitled to clothing issue in May."

Oddly enough no mention of it's introduction by the 4th Battalion??

For your records - extract from St.Georges Gazette 22nd Feb 1902;-

3rd Battalion, Northumberland Fusiliers, Parkhurst Barracks, Newport, Isle of Wight.

"The Battalion is now served out with the new universal Service uniform and is quite ready to start for the West Indies, but no orders have arrived to date. It is rumoured that the authorities are not quite sure where Antigua is yet."

Both the 1st & 2nd Battalions were serving in South Africa at this time and I suspect they didn't receive theirs until returning to the UK, but I'll double check.

I suspect the very low number of this man would indicate he was a member of a Territorial Artillery Brigade, as regular artillery numbers were into five figures by the outbreak of the war.

New 2nd Bn, R.R.F title for wear in Afghanistan.

Apart from Pioneers in the British Army, the beards which are encouraged in Afghanistan are done so purely as part of a 'warrior cult' that exists within the country. Bearded western males apparently receive greater recognition from their male Afghan counterparts than do those who are clean shaven.

For all aspects of the Great War and it's study, including how to read Medal Index Cards etc, try the attached link to this Forum;-

http://www.1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/

The National Archive MIC site is useful, but you have to remember that this is only part of the process. Neither the Medal Roll Books or Silver War Badge Rolls are on line and have to be viewed in person. The purpose of the MIC was to direct you to the relevant pages of either book in which you would find the recipient listed.

There are usually around 12names per sheet and all are held at the National Archive, Kew.

OK here goes - in three parts from one sheet, but only the first name of many as it'll be too big to post.

Just popped in to view this thread and found it superb. Congratulations lads on posting some outstanding photo's & illustrations. At one time I owned a copy of KR's 1911(?) for the Royal Navy in which the R.Marines featured in dress etc. It also gave details of the gun turret and it's alphabetical letter, of those ships which were served by RM Gunners, as well as those served by the RN Gunners.

Very true, the only way to know if he was wounded or discharged due to illness will be his service file/pension record.

Cheers

Chris

Hi Chris - the Silver War Badge Rolls here in the UK also contain the same information even down to the actual cause of illness. Where men have been discharged for various reasons, who also have not served overseas the end column on the right just has the "No" written in. I'm currently working my way through hundreds os pages of SWB's for the Northumberland Fusiliers and would reproduce a copy here, but they're probably to large to illustrate.

David Langley is a member of this Forum and I believe the booklet is running into either it's 3rd or 4th edition and can be purchased directly from him. I'll try and find his PM address.

His Forum name is - david grumpy.

Looking at his MIC Card he was entitlede to a trio i.e. 14/15 Star; British War Medal & Victory Medal

Chris - unfortunately the issue of a *Silver War Badge doesn't necessarily imply one has been wounded as they were also issued to those discharged through sickness and also to men who had never served overseas.

*Often & inacuratley described as a "Silver Wound Badge".

A more detailed reference to the British Army's regimental numbering system can be found in the following publication;-

"Regimental and Army Numbers of the British Line Infantry Soldier from AD. 1800 to 2008" by David Langley & Graham Stewart.

It's referring to the fact that he's also to be found in the Silver War Badge Rolls. The lists themselves compliment both the Medal Index Cards and Medal Roll Books, with this additional information i.e. unit discharged from; date of enlistment; date of discharge; SWB number; cause of discharge; age on discharge and whether or not he served overseas.

Hi David - the crown size is based purely on observations from my collection of NF photo's and I should have been a bit more precise i.e. the worsted crown worn pre-1915 by Clr Sgts on SD/KD is large in comparison to the later brass ones often seen above the chevrons of a CQMS. It actually appears to be of the same dimensions as the crown worn by former Sergeant Majors, as worn on their lower arm, and this is reflected in the size of crown worn by CSM's etc today.

Oddly enought the NF seem to abandon the worsted crown altogether, as part of rank in favour of metal post 1915, but I would have to check through all of my photo's.

Did they not warrant CWGC burials? - if so surely they(the CWGC) would have a list of all those buried during these post world war conflicts of ours.

Absolutely superb - wonderful photogaphs of a campaign long gone bye. Interesting to see the Black Watch M.I.Coy of 12th M.I. wearing their slouch hats adorned with the red hackle.

Another cracking album and if my geography is correct the very last photo is the caves at Gozo, Malta.

Nice model Mervyn - now we know what you lads get up to on long lonely nights on the 'Veldt', with your pen-knives and bits of wood - a good whittling session, before a good kip. :whistle:

Graham - I hadn't realised that it was with the MI that the title of Co.Sgt.Maj. was created. Thanks for that 'tidbit'.

Hi Mervyn,

I have all of the Regimental Journals for the Northumberland Fusiliers for the South African War and in the Digest of Service it mentions those NF senior ranks being posted to and from the MI and either taking up/or reverting from the rank of CSM.

PS

Are you also aware of the Volunteer Service Company's, which served with the Regular Army?

Brett,

As a horse owner it's nice to know that they aren't forgotten either.