jholl72

ME button

pics

stamp on uniform.

Museum stamp???

more pics

More pics, I tried to use a photo hosting site to make it easier but the forum wouldn't allow it.

Hey guys,

Picked this up from a guy over at WAF, found at an estate sale. I had to take a chance at it as Canadian Victorian era uniforms are extremely hard to find.

Now I know nothing about them and finding online references is next to impossible also. So I am looking for some help from the members here who may have or have handled some of these uniforms.

I do know it is old, but how old and is it an original Militia uniform.

The Montreal Engineers were raised in 1862 and were disbanded in 1892. As I understand it there was little uniform regulations at the time and several regiments had these braided and knotted style of uniform.

There is a few things that I have questioned and will point them out here and hopefully we can generate some discussion on these.

First the jacket itself appears to be a more traditional Canadian uniform that has been altered to conform to what the ME's wanted. There are button holes on the uniform that have been sewn up and the bullion collar covers what appears to be a more traditional dark blue or black collar, the inside of the collar has also had a silky material added.

The buttons have about three different colours of thread and there are several different colours of thread on repairs about the uniform.

Could these be period repairs or attempts at conservation.

I should mention that inside the right shoulder I found what look to be museum inventory numbers, so perhaps this uniform has had some restoration/conservation work done.

Some of the original stitching has disintegrated and the seems have come loose, so this seems possible.

The bottom two buttons are US, possibly civil war era buttons, made by Waterbury Button Co. and Waterbury Scovill Mfg. Co.....perhaps to replace missing buttons to put it on display?

The other front buttons and the four cuff buttons are all Victorian era Montreal Engineers buttons made by Hebbert & Co. London.

I looked up the button manufacturers and both were actively producing military buttons during the 1862-1892 period.

I can provide as many pictures as needed of whatever anyone wants to see.

The question is..is it original??

Can anyone identify this propeller? I have been told it is a Ju88 late war wooden propeller.

Do the markings mean anything to anyone?

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks.

Hi Jeff,

I take it you have an interest in Wolseleys. There is a topic devoted to them on the forum and you can see plenty in my Collectors Showcase topic.

I am also just finishing off a book devoted to the Wolseley (www.militarysunhelmets.com) so feel free to ask questions if you need to.

Stuart

Hi Stuart,

I had found that thread after buying that first helmet and it indeed did help me with this second purchase. Being a novice Wolseley collector it's great to have someone experienced to confirm what you think you learned.LOL!

I am most interested in your book and look forward to getting a copy.

BTW, I have just checked out your collection thread and all I can say is WOW! I can only aspire to have a headgear collection like that! One Wolseley at time I guess.

Thanks!

Thanks for confirming that for me Stuart, I actually learned something after that last helmet.

Thanks also for the additional information, I appreciate your help. :cheers:

WD stamp

stamp on liner

liner

back

front

Side shot.

Thanks for the information Stuart!

I went back to square one and came up with this one. Hopefully this one is my first Wolseley helmet. :blush:

name

Maybe its a civilian helmet????

inside...

markings on liner

inside

Hi guys,

I picked up my first Wolseley helmet at flea market this past weekend. I believe it to be a WWII era, authentic helmet. Although I am always open to corrections.

The writing on the liner and the sweatband is where I really would like some opinions. It all appears to hand written and certainly looks old, to me at least. The writing on the liner is Trinidad Jan 1942, the sweat band says SS Athina Livanos and Edgar Taylor Wireless Operator.

The Greek cargo ship Athina Livanos SS was torpedoed and sunk by a German submarine on November 29th, 1943, in the Gulf of Aden. Nine of her crew and two passengers were lost.

What might the relationship between Trinidad, Greek merchant ship and a wireless operator be and would he have a Wolseley pattern helmet?

Any thoughts, ideas or opinions are always welcome..thanks, Jeff

Lt-Col Ralph Stephenson Clarke, TD, MP, RA

Born at Chesham Street, London, SW on 17 August 1892, the eldest son of Col. Stephenson Robert Clarke, CB, JP and his wife. Edith Gertrude, third daughter of Joseph Godman, JP, DL of Park Hatch, Surrey

Educated at Eton from 1905 to 1910 (Shooting Viii, 1910; Oppidian) and King's College, Cambridge, BA, 1913, MA, 1919

Served with the Sussex Yeomanry (attached to the Royal Sussex Regiment) from 1914 to 1919 in Egypt, Gallipoli and Palestine

Wounded in Beersheeba in 1917

ADC, Commander-in-Chief Southern Command in 1918

On 15 December 1921 he married Rebecca Mary, daughter of Gerald Buxton of Birch Hall, Theydon Bois, Essex and they had three children, Robert Hunn Stephenson Clarke born on 17 April 1925; Simon Edward Stephenson Clarke born on 5 September 1926; and Anne Stephenson Clarke, born on 1 March 1923.

From 24 November 1922 to 1933 he commanded 389th Battery, 98th (Surrey and Sussex Yeomanry) Field Brigade, RFA TA

From 1933 he commanded 98th Field Brigade, RA TA

Deputy Lieutenant, Sussex from 4 June 1932

1936- MP, East Sussex (East Grinstead Division)

From 1938 to 1939 he was Parliamentry Private Secretary to Earl Winterton

Lt-Col, OC, 2nd Field Training Regiment, RA from 1939 to 1941

Lt-Col, OC, 12th (Finsbury Rifles) LAA Regiment, RA from 1941 to 1944 in Iran, Iraq and Sicily (Mentioned in Despatches)

Military Member, Sussex Territorial Army Association

Hon. Colonel, 344th (Sussex Yeomanry) LAA/SL Regiment, RA TA

Director of Stephenson Clarke and Associated Companies, Ltd. and of A. P. Austin and Son (Sunderland) Limited, shipbuilders.

Sources: Who's Who in Sussex, 1935; The Old Public School-Boys Who's Who, Eton; List of Etonians Who Fought in the Great War 1914-1919; Eton School Register, Part VIII 1899-1909; A Register of Admissions to King's College, Cambridge, 1797-1925; List of Etonians Who Fought in the World War 1939-1945; Kelly's Handbook to the Titled, Landed and Official Classes; Who's Who, 1950; Fifty Years of Sport, Eton, Harrow, Winchester.

Regards, Gunner 1

Gunner 1,

What can say but thank you so much for this information. Not only is it a tonne of great information but it gives me so much to work with.

This guy was involved in a lot.

He came from a long line of wealthy people in the shipping industry(starting in 1735), which as far as I can tell is still in existence today. The family home where Ralph lived is a tourist attraction in Sussex.

He was Knighted.

WOW. I haven't had this much information about someone before. It is going to take me awhile to compile all the information. His portrait is in the National Gallery, but the online image wouldn't load for me tonight, so I will try again tomorrow.

Thanks to this forum, I have a great research project to embark on....I can't wait to get started.

I will post the information back here for anyone interested.

The following is from www.peerage.com

Colonel Sir Ralph Stephenson Clarke is the son of Colonel Stephenson Clarke.2 He married Rebekah Mary Buxton, daughter of Gerald Buxton and Lucy Ethel Pease, on 15 December 1921.1

Colonel Sir Ralph Stephenson Clarke held the office of Deputy Lieutenant (D.L.).1 He graduated with a Master of Arts (M.A.).1 He was invested as a Knight Commander, Order of the British Empire (K.B.E.).1 He was decorated with the award of Territorial Decoration (T.D.).1 He held the office of Member of Parliament (M.P.) (Conservative) for East Grinstead between 1936 and 1955.1

Children of Colonel Sir Ralph Stephenson Clarke and Rebekah Mary Buxton

* Anne Stephenson Clarke b. 1 Mar 1923, d. 13 Oct 19672

* Robert Nunn Stephenson Clarke+ b. 17 Apr 19252

* Simon Edward Stephenson Clarke+ b. 5 Sep 19262

Below is a pic of the family home...

You beat me to bid on that by about an hour on Manions, I think. Nearly ruined my Xmas. How are the Victorian sabre slings that were part of the lot? I don't see them displayed with it.

Good luck researching it,

~TS

Hi TS,

I bought this one of another forums for sale section. There was nothing else offered with the uniform. He may have had it listed on Manions, I don't know, I have never been to that site.

Thanks for the best wishes in the research..it looks like gunner1 has done the hard part.