JSlavick

This thread is going great! Martin, the hand-coloring is really cool! Here is a nice compliment to your Taufschein.

Joe

Hello All:

Last month I mentioned I would be scanning some documents from Orion. These are especially special to me because all three were printed or mimoegraphed aboard the ship. The paper is a bit frail and faded, but the documents still speak their history boldly. Joe

My post is not specifically in response to the Japanese badge question, it is more about numbers and in response to Martin’s comment and question of 05 march 2013: “But I think that to earn the HK award you had to have service on one of the Raiders? I find it hard to believe that these awards were given to crewmen who served on Blockade Breakers only, but who knows ?”

The official Kriegsmarine designation “Hilfskreuzer” is larger than just what we think of as the “raiders.” The auxiliary minelayer Doggerbank is an example. It was designated as a Hilfskreuzer, but it was not a “raider” per se. The raises the question were all auxiliary minelayers dispatched on foreign missions designated “Hilfskreuzer” and did crewman qualify for the Viking boat badge?

I don’t have the MV/NTB handy, but I think (writing from memory here folks...) that it specifically only authorizes the Viking boat badge to crewmen of an “armed merchant cruiser.”

However we have these exceptions:

1) The Doggerbank crew qualified for the HSK badge

2) The men who trans-shipped from Tannenfels and spent only one month aboard Atlantis, before departing on other unarmed prize ships were awarded the HSK badge

3) A supply ship crewman who spent three weeks aboard Kormoran before departing and was awarded the HSK badge

4) A group of sailors trans-shipped to Komet for a short time who were awarded the HSK badge

5) The crewmen of Brake who wore the HSK badge (why?) (Are there other ships in this category?)

There is indeed 5% to 15+% of additional non armed merchant cruiser crewman who trans-shipped from supply ships to raiders, were added to the rolls, and then trans-shipped off again later or were assigned to prize crews.....I would argue these men probably were awarded HSK Badges.

I hear a lot of Uckermark men wearing the HSK badge. True? Can someone confirm via photo?

It seems to me that qualifying for the HSK badge was up to varied interpretation and may expand to others that most people don’t consider when counting totals.

I really look forward to carrying on this discussion and refining what we know as a group!

Joe

Hmmmm. I am really thinking these 6 signatures are fakes, made to sell as originals, and I think I was "taken" by the sellers. At this point I am not really convinced enough though...so I won't destroy the photos, but will also not add them into my Hilfskreuzer Archive either. So into the "extras" box for storage for now. If you do have an opinion about these six signatures, I would surely like to hear what you think. Thanks! Joe

Chris, et al:

The following photos are posted for further study. I do realize they are all postwar prints, that is no issue what so ever IF the Rogge signatures are authentic.

thanks for your time and opinions....

Joe

Chris: Good idea. I'll post get the six photos in question scanned and posted, hopefully tonight.

Joe

Martin: Yes, taken during the line crossing ceremony. Here is one where the ceremony is on-going...

The Equator ceremony seems to be a theme for me right now....just this week, one of the actual scripts from ORION's ceremony arrived too. I'll get it scanned and posted,

Joe

Martin:

Here is another of Tischer's original prints. I thought you would like this one because it shows two camera's hanging around his neck.

Joe

Esteemed Colleagues:

A study of 21 signatures from Rogge for comparision and I ask for your opinions on the other six within the yellow boxes.

I think the six in the yellow boxes are bad fakes, but I want to be absolutely sure before I destroy them.

Thanks for your opinions.

Joe

I forgot to add a photo of the last thing that Herr Mohr sent me before he passed away---A signed copy of **HIS** book! It is a treasure!

Joe

Martin...You are too kind! Thanks for the nice comments about the book.

Yes, Luke has a great example of a 1944 release of Mohr's cruise book. I think we would be more accurate to limited release version (with crewlist) and a wider released version (without crew list). I think there was only one printing (edition) of the 1944 book, but two versions--the first few hundred being bound with a crewlist included and the rest of the run either with them omitted or carefully removed. Mohr didn't come right out and say this, but I inferred it from him mentioning "a crew and family" version.

Luke: Yes, the signatures I posted were collected in one of the blue 1982 reprints of Mohr's book. They were collected during an annual crew reunion for someone interested in the ship.

The Komet books are a bear to find, and when you find them, they are expensive!

Great pick up Luke!

The Kameradschafts Treffen handout is simply wonderful. I have seen a few of them covering various years. However this was the first time I've seen one for the 10 year!

Martin: "Leube" wasn't a crewman...signatures **for** Leube. He was probably an admirer of the ship or crew and requested the signatures. You'll have occasion to see this practice every-so-often.

Luke: If you could post photos of the Kameradschaft booklet pages, that would be great. Those are a great source of information for my biographical archive database.

I especially like it when Rogge signs items "Your Old Commander..." Great stuff!

Joe

Andreas!!

That is freaking A-W-E-S-O-M-E!! I can't believe you were able to find this....That was fast too! Thanks a ton for the info and the time searching.

Joe

Thanks for looking Martin. I am still searching too. I haven't lost all hope, but given multitude of units and various small vessels, this one might remain a mystery. Joe

Fellow Researchers:

This one has me stumped. I've looked quite a bit. I am hoping someone will be able to recognize this tradition badge.

Thanks for any assistance.

Joe

Oh my Gaawwwwwddd! This is a GREAT history! Thanks so much for posting Erik!

I would be thrilled to see more if there is more to see.

Thanks---I was able to fill out tons of info on Nehm's entry in my database too!

Joe

Post #82 is an Imperial Naval Zeppelin Pilot Badge. Great Photo!

Erik: Thanks that is a start for sure. Was he assigned to Z8 "BRUNO HEINEMANN" on 27 Sep 1941 and stayed aboard until the sinking of Z8 on 25 Jan 1942. Then was assigned to Z31?

Martin: Just a transcription mistake on my part. No worries. Your crew lists are good ones.

Joe

Erik:

Would it be possible to get Nehm's specific career details from you?

I have been working on an auxiliary cruiser crew database for about 18 years. All I presently have on him is: "Nehm, Walter. Matrosengefreiter, Thor-1 & Thor-2, Awarded EK2 on 05 Apr 1941. Sailed on THOR's second cruise as an Oberbootsmannsmaat."

Any help would be appreciated!

Joe

Martin:

I was going to comment on how much I liked the portrait with the two minesweepers....T-H-E-N ....I saw the three person portrait with the HSK badge, Destroyer badge and Galipoli Star!

Yikes----That is an OUTSTANDING portrait!!

Joe

Gordon:

You are correct...I am such a knucklehead....Talk about "not being able to see the forest because I was only staring at one tree!"

Of course, I didn't think of the wider perspective of all the other KM badges and KM manufacturers! Sometimes it is much better to open ones frame of reference and think about the bigger picture.

Thanks for the course correction!

Joe

Martin and Gordon:

I have had occasion to hold/review/inspect three original issue HSK award sets from ATLANTIS crewmen presented on the original issue day where Rogge presented and Mohr assisted. (As pictured in the Mohr 1944 book). All of those were the brown cardboard box and brown tissue-type paper wrapper.

I firmly believe the blue boxed badges (and other laminated or colored period boxes) were period "after-market" or period pieces produced for issue or presentation after January 1942 (more likely: Apr 1942).

I've promised Martin that I'll scan my brown cardboard box, wrapping tissue and HSK badge for his review. Hopefully as a significant trade piece... (The only badges that I won't part with are ones personally given to me from HSK crewmen) The boxed/tissue wrapped badge I have was one of my early, early purchases. I need to get off my butt and post the photos of the set to see if anyone with HSK documents/portraits is interested in trading.

Joe Slavick

Just a side note. They were partially buried not long after the ground war ended as they were hit with DU and troops were always climbing on and around them. The pics I have show them with DU written on the sides for everyone to see. Scott.

Scott:

Urgg....I didn't know they were hit with DU. That is probably why they had razor wire around them! Had I known they were DU hot, I certainly would have stayed off of them. Cool that you were able to get a crewman's helmet from one of them.

Joe