WNickel

Hello Chris,

here are my numbers. It's difficult with the awards without swords because I don't know who had change into a decoration with swords.

all decoration am Beamtenband (Band f?r kriegsverdienste)

MVK 1 365

MVK 1 x 1191

MVK 1 mKr 24

MVK 1 mKr+x 64

MVK 2 173

MVK 2 x 1652

MVK 2 mKr 468

MVK 2 mKr+x 1883

MVK 3 24

MVK 3 x 907

MVK 3 mKr 71

MVK 3 mKr+x 149

Best regards

Werner

Hi David,

I have not the original rolls from Anhalt, Baden, Braunschweig, Oldenburg. Only Staatshandb?cher, for example Anhalt since 1872.

I have all classes from the prussian red eagle and the crown order with "addons" - that means swords, 50, etc. but not with "Schleife" or "Eichenlaub". There are twenty thousand of each order in all classes.

At last I have made a list of the bavarian MVK at the "Badn f?r Kriegsverdienste" - all classes - and the MVK 1. class for war-merit. Here I have only the Milit?rverordnungsblatt and not the original rolls.

But I think there are 75 - 90 %.

Best regards

Werner

...not to forget Preu?en Milit?rehrenzeichen 1867 - 1913....

Hi David,

Since 1994 I have made lists of

Anhalt until 1912,

Braunschweig until 1914

Baden until 1914,

Bayern fremde Orden an bayrische Offizier until 1917

Oldenburg until 1914

Preu?en Roter Adlerorden, Kronenorden with swords, 50, etc.

W?rttemberg Milit?rverdienstorden, Friedrichsorden, fremde Orden an w?rttembergische Offiziere WW1,

Kolonialverleihungen

Rangliste Preu?en, Sachsen, Bayern, W?rttemberg, Marine 1914, Reichsheer and Marine 1923 -1932

Intendanturbeamte, Post- und Telegraphenbeamte

and a few more. I have the microfilm of Hanseatenkreuz L?beck but not worked out.

Good luck

Werner

Hi Rick,

you are super - Emil Zwarg is correct.

But take care of your eyes and don't look in your list - I use the date from his document....

Zwarg_1.pdf

...Lippe, but no roses....

...and from a brunswick Polizeibeamten..

...i Like the war merit crosses on non-combattant ribbon....this is the bar of a Eisenbahnstationsvorsteher...

Mike-- thanks! I have not worked down to looking up the Leopold Inhabers in the Orders Almanac (I am still transcribing House Order grades) but there is a very good chance if that was from before 1908, and he listed himself in the Orders Almanac, that THAT could be the key to identifying Werner's medal bar recipient.

Hi Rick,

that's good - go on work...

And here my next Lippe-bar

Hi Rick,

the great master agree on my opinion

Here another example - I have shown it in thread years before - of a crown order 4. class on white ribbon wearer. It's the bar of Marineassistenzarzt Jansen. He got the crown order 4. class on white ribbon without swords in 1904, in 1908 he got the swords and the black ribbon to the crown order on white ribbon after he got the clasps to the southwest medal.

In WW1 he got the EK 2 and even the EK 1 as Marineoberstabsarzt on Helgoland - and now notice....he wear the cross for Kriegsteilnehmer .... to Rick

Werner

Hello,

the saxon bar is on my opinion a typical bar of a Feldpostsekret?r - more than 200 got the Albrechtskreuz with swords. I also found more than 600 Postbeamte with the iron cross 2. class and the black ribbon. At least there are many bavarian Postsekret?re with the iron cross and the black ribbon.

In southwest 11 Postbeamte or Telegraphenbeamte got the crown order 4. class with white ribbon.

There was a great difference between the german states and their awards given to the lower classes of Beamten. I have an example of an Eisenbahnstationsvorsteher, who got the Mecklenburg goldenes Verdienstkreuz and the Oldenburg Hausorden 3. class without crown at the same time.

In Preu?en the Allgemeines Ehrenzeichen was given to persons with a long time of service - what was given to a Feldpostsekret?r, who was 25-30 years old during his time in southwest?

In WW1 Bayern and Sachsen Feldpostsekret?re got the Milit?rverdienstkreuz or the Albrechtskreuz with swords - what got these people from W?rttemberg?

Werner

Hi Rick,

you want to see my Lippe bars - here's the first...

...and now a special question for Rick...

Which kind of people have a bar like this....?

For example a bar with thr Kolonial-DM with not bar....

Hi general,

which was the german board???

This is the back:

Hi,

that's good - let us begin. It's true, that the ribbons looks new, but that's only the lastest argument. On my opinion the order of the SWA-medal and the Kolonial-DM is unimportant, a missing clasp for the Kolonial-DM, too

The missing long service cross is a good argument , but which persons got a crown order on the white ribbon???? And had these persons wearing a centenar medal????

I say "NO"....

And now you....

Hi,

there are often only a few minutes to see a new bar at ebay in this forum - but this bar seems to be not interesting enough...

What's the matter????

Werner

Hi

Yes I mailed to the Wolfenb?ttel archive, I am really anxious to know if they have it. I will post a reply here when I get an answer from th Wolfenbuttel archives. (same goes for Hamburg-Bremen-L?beck btw)

David

Hi David,

I was in Wolffenb?ttel ten years ago - there weren't listings of the kvk. I have the L?beck Hanseatenkreuz on a micro film.

Best regards

Werner

Thank you for all informations.

In the future I will show you some strange medal bars more...

Hello,

last information to M Gaupp - he got the prussian crown order 3. class in 1917.

Werner

Strange. The BZ3a means he must have been a (not too young) Major in 1914, but he was still Major when he got the BZ3aX. I have found 9 candidates in the 1914 RL, but none of them got the BZ3aX in WW1. Those who got a Z?hringen with X got the BZ3amEX already. Maybe he got his BZ3a immediately before the war, after the 1914 ranklist came out...

... or might the oakleaves be missing?

Hi,

really a nice bar.

I would say that it is the bar of M zD Gaupp, LwBez Witten, BdZL 3a, PRAO 4, PDA25 in the ranklist 1914 and he got the BdZL 3a x 02.11.1916.

Werner

...and now your "Meisterst?ck"

Hi Rick,

I think you have done a good work - but I will proof you again

Hi Paul

have you bought his bar at ebay?????

Regards

Werner

Congratulation Rick and many thanks

but I have a lot of questions....

Ooooo!

From German and Allied intelligance Orders of Battle.

The 10. EID was formed in 1914 from Brigade Ersatz Bataillonen from the following Infanterie Brigaden:

25, 26, 27, 28, 37, 38, 39, 40, 43, 44, 76, and 83 !!!

Now your DOCTOR should be "easy" to find!

...

I come up with only FOUR.

I think the most likely was from Staff of 22nd Infantry Division (Waldeck and Saxe-Meiningen AND long service on the Russian Front, making the Austrian awards far more explainable)--

Oberarzt Dr. R?hle (von Lilienstern-- the roll leaves off this part of his last name!!!!) 18.12.14. (Oberarzt 20.2.12 D, Stabsarzt aD alive in 1926, FAR 11 before the war)

OR

Stabsarzt (dR or dL) Dr. Ab?e from-- Inf Rgt 371 on 28.12.15. But there were THREE of them-- can't tell WHICH of this name and rank WAS in 10 EID!!!

Or these two, with NO unit listed in the rolls--

Stabsarzt dR Dr. Griemert (not "Grienert") 9.7.18

Stabsarzt dR Dr. Karl Richter 21.6.18 (good luck with so many of THAT last name!)

Oh where or where are the Saxe-Meiningen rolls!!!!!!

Hi Rick,

now we know, where the saxe-meiningen rolls are....

Maybe with a little help....

Best regards

Werner