Christian Zulus

Perhaps. But who plays the "sharks" and who plays the "chum" in this scenario?

Dear Ed,

that's a question, impossible to answer right now ...

Is someone a "shark", who sells some gems of his Soviet collection at an auction with a net-profit of more than 1000 % (or much more) ?

Maybe the same person feels himself in 1 or 2 years as "chum" .

In my opinion, orders & medals (+ the history behind the items) belong to the sphere of real & eternal values - contrary to all these "financial values". O.K., if you need urgently some cash for i.e. balancing out your housing loan (or if your wife wants a new car ), then it will make sense to sell now some items of your collection to one of these rich Russian collectors. If you don't need cash now at the moment, keep your Soviet gems, because they are "real" .

We (old) collectors of Soviet orders & medals can be happy, that we got our gems for an "apple & egg" during the early 1990s, due to the economic desaster in Russia. I never paid more, than USD 20,- for such an RB in question in the 1990s ... . On the other side, it is a moral & ethic question: We all profited out of the misery of the Russian people . But we keep them (in bank vaults), show them at GMIC and - very important - research them, to keep the memory up of the heroic deeds of the multinational soldiers of the Red Army .

Just my thoughts about the topic ...

Best regards

Christian

Interesting. You wonder how much ex-public-museum material is winding up in them. Does anyone check THOSE serial numbers? We all know the answers . . . ?

Dear Ed,

we can see this as something like a PPP (Private Public Partnership) .

Best regards

Christian

Dear Marc,

2. Ursula (also known as Ruth) Kuczynski / Hamburger / Beurton / Werner

I already mentioned all here names, you listed above.

5. Swiss communist Pierre Nicolle nicknamed her "Petite Souris" (small mouse) to celebrate her success in penetrating and setting up a reliable spying network in Western governments.

I didn't know that fact .

6. She was personally involved with Roger Hollis who, later on, headed MI5.

That's really shocking , specially because it's the boss of MI 5 and not MI 6 ... I also didn't know that fact in Ruth Werner's biography.

Best regards

Christian

BTW: As far, as I remember, I already asked a question here at Christophe's quiz about Ruth Werner's first RB .

Military History in Asia 1945

Dear Kevin,

to start with the end of your posting:

You are exactly right: WW II started 1936 in China (or 1914 in Sarajevo ) and the Imperial Japanese Army got "(in)famous" for their Nanking Massacre http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre in december 1937, where they murdered about 300.000 Chinese civilians .

The undisputed historic fact is, that USA & USSR agreed in Yalta and fixed it in Potsdam, that the Red Army will sacrifice Soviet soldiers for finishing up with the Imperial Japanese Army. Roosevelt & Truman did a lot of pressure in that issue.

Actually a US-Invasion of the Japanes main islands, of China, Manchuria and Korea had been never a relastic option for the US-Admininstration for two reasons:

- the USA had no money and resources at all for going on with that war till 1946 - they were exhausted

- the estimated losses, you already mentioned, wouldn't have been hardly acceptable for the US-Public

So that issue was handed over to "Uncle Joe" with his victorious Red Army. O.K., for the Soviet's engagement in the Far East, they "got" something in Europe ... Anyhow, Marshal Vasilevsky http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Vasilevsky did in Asia with his operation "August Storm" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_August_Storm an excellent job, which is regarded as one of the most perfect operations in military history. Vasilevsky got for his job another Order of Lenin, due to the fact, that Stalin couldn't give him another Order of Victory, because Vasilevsky received already 2 items of that order for his strategic leadership in Europe. But Vasilevsky was happy about the Lenin, as he writes in his memoirs.

Let us formulate it this way: There had been some problems in communication between the "Living God" Tenno Hirohito http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hirohito and his war cabinet. It is documented, that Hirohito said, after the Soviet Union entered the war in Asia, that their war is now finished and that Japan should accept the unconditional surrender (before the USA dropped the bomb!). It is also documented, that the US-Adminstration wasn't able - or didn't want to be able - to formulate that document of unconditional surrender in the correct (Japanese) style (not touching their "Living God" etc. etc.). O.K., the end of the war in Asia was delayed for some weeks and the US-Adminstration had the possibility to demonstrate the horror of nuclear bombs twice .

Again, to sacrifice up to 3 million US-boys for an invasion in Japan & China - far away from the US-Homeland - was never a relastic option - neither for Roosevelt, nor for Truman. Remember that great movie "Letters from Ivo Jima" http://iwojimathemovie.warnerbros.com/lett.../framework.html . The invasion at the Japanese homeland would have resulted in thousends of Ivo Jima's. It's a big difference to fight against reluctant Germans in northern France, than to fight against the monster in it's own cave, as the Red Army did in Berlin.

Best regards

Christian

This is way off the original topic, but:-

The reason the Bombs were dropped on Japan, was for rejecting the unconditional surrender, demanded.

And to save the 1-3 million Allied casualties, it was estimated the Allies, would incur in taking the islands by invasion.

The condition of the Japanese Kwantung Army on the Asian mainland facing the Soviets,

in during, and after the Battle of Manchuria, would have had no bearing on the Battle for the Japanese home islands,

in fact, the people of the Japanese homelands had hardly anyknowledge of how these troops were fairing and certainly the

Japanese High Command were not telling the people of the Japanese Homeland about their losses, to much "face" would

have been lost.

It is also known that even after the second bomb was used, the Japanese High Command was still urging for the war to be

continued, it took a direct order from the "Living God" to force them to accept the war was in deed over.

More people died in the fires caused by the bombing of Tokyo, than were lost to the attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Again a case of reaping what they sowed. The Japanese started the campaign in 1936 against the Chinese.

Kevin in Deva.

However today to throw bombs to Yugoslavia it is extreme cruelty

Dear Sergey,

many thanks for your point of view .

Best regards

Christian

Lieber Waldemar,

that's a really nice & old item .

Does this organization still exist ?

Best regards

Christian

Christian,

On 5 November 1943, 127 civilian and military railroad workers received the title of HSL

Marc

Dear Marc,

congratulations to your perfect & super-fast answer .

Question #187 is your turn now again .

BTW: That incident in november 1943 prooves again, how democratic the Soviet award system has been . I can't remember, that 127 British railroad workers got on one day their KBE & knighthood by H.M. the Queen .

Best regards

Christian

Dear Paul,

that's a quite fair & moderate price, if you consider, that this ORB is a GPW & battle award, according to the s/n.

Best regards

Christian

I have been following these daily on Ebay for the past two weeks and it seems like the average closing price on these is going above 600 dollars now!!! The price of a basic ORB is going up DAILY!! It is hard to believe that there were over 500,000 of these awarded!! I should have bought a lot more of them when they were a mere 20 dollars a pop!!

This one just closed at 665 dollars- Unresearched #161928. Enamel is perfect, only the tiniest amount of gilt wear on a couple of the highest spots. Ring appears unopened. Ribbon is clean and very bright, could be a replacement but it seems to me to be an original.

I am sort of a multicultural chameleon, but I carry both Australian and French passports.

Dear Marc,

that's really a more than rare combination .

Best regards

Christian

BTW: For the "nationality-cultural-competition" at Christophe's quiz - shall we count you to French cultural world or English-American cultural world ?

New question #186

Gentlemen,

to stay on the "fast track", another simple & easy question.

New question:

The HSL had been during (and before) the GPW an ultra-rare Soviet award and much rarer, than a HSU.

Despite the extremly low number of awardings till 1945, there had been one occaision during the GPW of a "HSL-mass-awarding".

Which group of people received their HSLs ?

One simple question - one simple answer .

Best regards

Christian

Dear Marc,

2. Of course, she had been Jewish . First she had been married to the architect Rolf Hamburger .

5. No glue ....

6. Also no glue , but I already listed 3 prominent person .

Best regards

Christian

Congratulations Christian, you got most of it. I'll definitely give you this victory, but please complete a bit your answer:

1. Who is Sonia?

Colonel of the Soviet Army Ruth Werner aka. Ursula Beurton <a href="http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruth_Werner" target="_blank">http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruth_Werner</a> TRUE

2. What was her full name (given/family) and nationality?

Ursula Ruth Kuczynski, German (sister of marxist economist J?rgen Kuczynski <a href="http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%BCrgen_Kuczynski" target="_blank">http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%BCrgen_Kuczynski</a> ) INCOMPLETE give me all of the different Family name under which she was known; I was thinking of 'Nationality' in the Russian sense of the term

3. Where and when was she born / die?

* 15th of may 1907 in Sch?neberg; ? 7th of july 2000 in Berlin TRUE

4. Who was her employer? What was her occupation?

GRU - she had been one of the top-spies for the CCCP TRUE

5. What was her French sounding nickname? Who gave it to her?

It was the surname of her husband WRONG

6. Name at least 2 (famous) people with which she associated

Richard Sorge, Sandor Rado, Klaus Fuchs etc. etc. TRUE could you name one more (a specific one...) who got in lots of trouble when it was revealed who she really was

Marc

The 3 cannons of the La-7

Gentlemen,

I just want to show, how they Soviets implanted the 3 magnficent 20-mm-cannons into the La-7:

That sheer fire-power + the superiour qualities of that plane, made the La-7 to the best piston-engined fighter of WW II - better than any FW 190, Me 109, Mustang or Spitfire .

Best regards

Christian

I think you did well . I don't know if Beurton sounds French, but...

There was an interesting article recently published in Le Courrier de Russie (bi-monthly newspaper for French expats in Russia). Marc, I guess it inspired you...

Dear Christophe,

many thanks for your congratulations in advance, but let's wait for Marc .

"Beurton" might be Normannic ?

Best regards

Christian

BTW: 3 more victories and I'll get my 2nd HSA (another 20 victories) and you will have to finance a monument with my bust in home town Vienna - as usual for all twice Heroes .

Dear Kevin,

I had been speaking about Harris' knighthood (=KBE) and not about his baronetcy of a 1st Baronet of Chipping Wycombe, which he actually got - as you said - 1953 by the new (and old) PM Churchill for his deeds during WW II. He would have stayed a "Sir" Harris, I guess, even if he would have opposed against Prof. Frederick Lindemann, 1st Viscount Cherwell, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Lin...scount_Cherwell plans of war (Lindemann was maybe THE most influential adviser to Churchill).

Just for illustration, some statements of "Bomber Harris":

"I do not personally regard the whole of the remaining cities of Germany as worth the bones of one British Grenadier."

"In spite of all that happened at Hamburg, bombing proved a relatively humane method."

I guess, that the views of the 1st Baronet of Chipping Wycombe are at least worth a discussion .

No, we also have Protestant chaplains within the Austrian Armed Forces and soon we will get two Islamic imans, but the big majority is Catholic - as in Ireland or Poland.

You are exactly right, Austrians have been "key-players" - besides of Adolf Hitler - in the Holocaust, KZ-system and SS. Two days ago, Prof. Ian Kershaw told in an interview for an Austrian magazine, that the share of the Austrians (according to the size of their population) within the Holocaust-System was much higher, than of the Germans. AND exactly 70 years ago, Adolf Hitler was more wellcomed in Austria, than in any other part of Europe . After 1945 the Austrians made the world to believe, that Hitler had been a German and Beethoven an Austrian ...

From a military point of view Hiroshima & Nagasaki had been not neccessary. The two bombs had been just Truman's PR-show towards the Soviets. The extinction of the Japanese Kwantung Army on the Asian mainland by the Soviet Battle of Manchuria http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_August_Storm , broke the spine of the Japanese Armed Forces. Japanese documents show now very clearly, that the Soviet operations had more impact in the war cabinet, than the two US-bombs. BTW: The bombing of Tokio caused more losses, than the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki together ...

Please don't speak about a race of people, who is busy with killing, torturing and murdering - it's neither the race, nor all people! It's just the leading class - or oligarchy -, which makes the war(s). Japanese ordinary people are as peaceful, as Irish or Austrian people.

Best regards

Christian

You are right, you are guessing, I believe he got his knighthood and pension and awards as befitting for for doing what he believed was right in WW2 along with his service pre-WW2. As to the opinions of the Hamburger's and Dresdener's, well, the losers in a conflict, especially one that they started, and supported, will always be sour, while they were on the winning streak and during the "Happy Time", I bet they did a lot of Swastika Flag waving and "Sieg Heiling", but, when the shoe is on the other foot they cry "no fair".

With regards, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, they were perfectly acceptable targets of high war production, belonging to a race of people who were busy killing, torturing and murdering, their way a cross Asia, with no consideration for anybody but themselves, and even today they still manage to avoid admitting they were guilty.

Personally I do not see what your particular Religious Persuasion, has to do with your pamphlet writing job, unless, only Catholics are allowed to serve in the Austrian Armed Forces?? But there again there are many in Austria who have difficulty reconciling what was done in Austria, and by Austrians in the service of the Nazis, post Anschluss and in WW2.

Out of sight is out of mind for some eh?

Dear Marc,

I hope, I have the correct answer:

1. Who is Sonia?

Colonel of the Soviet Army Ruth Werner aka. Ursula Beurton http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruth_Werner

2. What was her full name (given/family) and nationality?

Ursula Ruth Kuczynski, German (sister of marxist economist J?rgen Kuczynski http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%BCrgen_Kuczynski )

3. Where and when was she born / die?

* 15th of may 1907 in Sch?neberg; ? 7th of july 2000 in Berlin

4. Who was her employer? What was her occupation?

GRU - she had been one of the top-spies for the CCCP

5. What was her French sounding nickname? Who gave it to her?

It was the surname of her husband

6. Name at least 2 (famous) people with which she associated

Richard Sorge, Sandor Rado, Klaus Fuchs etc. etc.

Best regards

Christian

Dear Kevin,

No, the only person, who goes into a "tit for tat" political discussion is the person, who entered the discussion about the quality of US-Presidents (and the possibility for Prime Minister Putin obtaining Soviet GPW-awards) recently ...

Listen, I stated, that the USA had a different strategy & concept of bombing Nazi-Germany, than the UK - that's an evident historic fact and about that, any discussion is senseless.

I stated, that the Roosevelt-Administration had a different strategy & concept for the UNO and towards the future collaboration with the Soviet Union, than the Truman-Adminstration - that's also an evident historic fact and about that, any discussion is again senseless.

I stated, that the renowed US-economist & Harvard-Professor (and ex-member of the Roosevelt-Administration!) John Kenneth Gailbraith published a study about the impact of the Allied bomb raids on the war-economy in Nazi-Germany. You should read that study.

If you think, that Hamburg, Dresden etc. etc. was soooo neccessary for winning the war against Nazi-Germany, than that's your private opinion and I invite you, to discuss your point of view with the old generation of people living in Hamburg, Dresden etc. etc.

Listen, I am not paid by the Austrian Armed Forces for "tit for tat" political pamphlets, but for serious work within the general staff of our army as an expert for history.

A "tit for tat"-argumentation line would be: Gurnica - Coventry - Dresden - Hiroshima, but that's not up to the standard of the science of history. Historians know neither "good", nor "bad", they have to analyze the causes, reasons and strategies behind the historic incidents and to present hard facts or at least valid theories. I guess, that "Bomber" Harris wouldn't have lost his knighthood & pension, if he would have opposed against these insane opertions against Hamburg or Dresden ...

War is inhuman and it should be the main aim of all armed forces around the globe to prevent war and to establish peace, as the (neutral) Irish and Austrian Armed Forces practise successfully for decades within the UN-Forces .

Dear Kevin, don't be soooooo offensive against my postings - I am neither a communist, nor a maniac, just a Catholic in uniform serving in the army of a neutral country .

Best regards

Christian

Is this thread going to descend into a "tit for tat" political discussion?

The German fascist Air force bombed innocent civilians in Gurnica, Spain,

with the experience gained there they went on to hit Polish, Dutch, Belgian, French and British targets

like Coventry and other well known British cities. Also they targeted many Russian cities.

The German population reaped what they sowed under their leadership, and despite what is posted on "Postanythingyoulikeikipedia" German Military War production did suffer and this was reflected in the falling supplies of war material.

"Bomber" Harris did the job he was trained to do, he took the fight to the enemy nation, he targeted the infrastructure, which was in civilian areas, (you wont hear anybody who had to live under the Blitz condition in London or other British cities condemn him,) and there was no such thing as precision bombing, only carpet bombing.

Kevin in Deva.

Dear Marc,

these are good & valid arguments .

But as a historian & economist, I guess, that the forgers & fakers shops (or booming industry ) in the Baltics started off with their really big business in the mid 1990s, when the prices & demand for Soviet items started to grow. In the early 1990s there had been an affluent supply of Soviet awards and very low prices in the West. So, there would have been too less profit for our keen "experts" in the Baltics. Of course, I had been fooled at the beginning of my collector's career by a casted RB-screwback and a strucked Nakhimov-Medal, but both items had been clear visible fakes at the first sight for all real experts. I don't think, that these two fakes had been manufactured in the Baltics, because there our forgers have a higher standard. O.K., a RB-screwback and a Nakhimov-Medal had been faked from the very beginning, due to their always rather high market value from the very beginning und due to the easyness of faking specially these two items. But "Excellence Badges" had been cheap & affluent at these times and there would have been too less economic reason to fake a Sniper - it was easier to struck a Nakhimov .

Just my theory - as a historian from outside - to the history of "real fakes" in Russian ...

Best regards

Christian

BTW: Marc, what's your nationality - I always regarded you as a Russian ?

Living in the former Evil Empire since many years (and having travelled there since the early 1970's), that bit of "common Western wisdom" is, IMHO, nothing more than an attempt at self-reassurance - what the French call "Methode Cou?".

Fakes - of quality varying from laughable to very high - were produced in many fields (OMDs, uniforms, collectables, etc) as early as the 1980's, if not earlier.

One must always keep in mind that Russians have their own understanding of what an original, a copy, a replica, etc, are. I addition, the Soviet Union promoted what I nickname a culture of the "real fake": copies of the original made by specialized masters to be as close to the original as possible. An example of this is the cap Lenin wore when Nelly Kaplan shot him; I have personally seen at least 3 or 4 "originals" in various museums, each one with, among other things, the bullet hole and Lenin's spilled blood looking as they should

Maybe owned by one of those persons buying up all the high end Russian orders recently ?

You guess, there might be a Russian variant of the British "Lord Ashcan" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Ashcr..._Baron_Ashcroft , who built up an own museum for his incredible VC-collection .

Best regards

Christian

For what it's worth, I regularly see quite a few of these medals at the local club meeting although I personally never paid any specific attention to them.

My impression is that these have been seriously "restruck", and not necessarily by the official producer...

Dear Marc,

that's a highly interesting aspect .

Do these restrucked medals differ from the original awarded ones ?

The market price of an genuine medal might be somewhere around EUR 500,- to EUR 1.000,- (or even higher ... ), I guess. But the price for such a "Collectors Edition" should be only a few EUROs.

The 12th of june 1999 had been a great day for the Russian Army (... and the end of general Clark's brilliant career ).

Best regards

Christian

BTW: And General Walker got his deserved knighthood ...

In effect, the top enameled arm was somehow severed, an has been affixed to the underlying star as a convenient way to repair it.

Dear Marc,

no, the top enameled arm of the red star wasn't saved.

I guess, that a gifted juweller has made that piece completly new and attached it to the silver star, as you can see at the scan: The original red star doesen't have a more or less additional straight border line towards the medaillon.

Best regards

Christian

BTW: I have another Nevsky T2 in good condition to compare .

Here also, some clear, good quality pictures would go a long way helping to assess your beauty

Dear Marc,

o.k., again I will try with my mobile-phone-camera ...

As I already mentioned, that badge come to the West BEFORE the big wave of fakes arraived at the collectors market.

Do you have some more links to Russian websites, where some genuine Excellence Badges can bee seen ?

Best regards

Christian

How about some clear, good quality pictures to try and solve that "mystery"

Dear Marc,

o.k., I will try with my mobile-phone-camera ...

As I already mentioned, that badge come to the West BEFORE the big wave of fakes arraived at the collectors market.

Do you have some more links to Russian websites, where some genuine Excellence Badges can bee seen ?

Best regards

Christian

Unlike Franklin D. Roosevelt.

Dear Wild Card,

o.k., you are right ... , at least Roosevelt's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt bombing of Nazi-Germany hadn't been a violation of international laws, despite the well proven historic and economic fact (i.e.: study of economist Galbraith http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kenneth_Galbraith ), that the bombing had far less effect on the Nazi's war-economy, than expected, but much more effect on the population, housings and the civil infrastructure. AND you can not compare the US-bombing of Nazi-Germany with the British bombing by Churchill and "Bomber Harris" (aka: "Butcher Harris") http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Travers_Harris .

Maybe the most positive aspect of the Roosevelt-Adminstration, concerning foreign policy, had been the peaceful cooperation at all fields with the CCCP and the establishing of the UNO - both issues were destructed by Churchill & Truman .

Best regards

Christian

Dear Christophe,

many thanks for the information .

That's strange, because some hours ago, the last two links worked ....

Please go to: http://kaupat.gagar.fi/epages/Kaupat.axl/?...mp;Locale=en_GB

Klick at:

Auction Catalog March 29, 2008

It should be http://www.medalhouse.com/pdf/Medalhouse_c...og_final_v3.pdf with a right mouseclick ...

You will find the "Medal House"-thread at: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showforum=84 (please scroll down).

Best regards

Christian

Hi Christian,

There seems to be some pbs with the links you posted...

Cheers.

Ch.

Two numbered medals at an auction in Germany

Gentlemen,

Jani Tiainen http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showuser=1035 has two of these medals - with moderate starting prices! - at his coming auction (march 29th 2008) in Germany:

http://www.medalhouse.com/pdf/Medalhouse_c...og_final_v3.pdf

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?s=&showtop...st&p=248012

Best regards

Christian