Christian Zulus

Full Cavalier Yudin in the www

Dear Enzo,

I found that link in the www, where comrade Yudin is mentioned as a Full Cavalier of the Order of Glory:

http://www.moskow-obl.ru/about/clause/139/401557/

Best regards

Christian

So I propose a new rule to be added :

If after three (3) days, the last winner has not asked yet for a question, and has not transferred his"right" to another Member; everyone else is authorized to do so and ask for the next challenge.

Dear Christophe,

excellent idea to bring some "speed" to your quiz .

Let's wait for Auke's question .

Best regards

Christian

Dear Enzo,

congratulations - you made almost 2.000 % profit with your Glory 1cl within 15 years .

The fact is, that today you won't get a sloppy done 950-gold-copy of a Glory 1cl for EUR 450,-, because the price of the gold is much higher ....

For getting the full citation of your Glory 1cl, you have to get your award researched, because the citations in the reference book are very, very short and not very exactly. If you don't already have it, I can PM the e-mail-adress of our researcher, who has access to the archives in Podolsk, to you.

I don't know, how common the name "Yudin" is in Russia, but maybe there is some relation to Stalin's favorite pianist Maria Yudina: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Yudina ?

Best regards

Christian

Hi Christian,

first of all, thank you very much for the information!, Now I'll go and look for Yudin's biography in "Kavalerij Ordena Slavy Trekh Stepeney", Moscow, Voyennizdat, 2000.

Thank you too for the further reference.

I've bought the piece back in 1993 in Milan, at the "Militalia" militaria show for 900.000,- Lire (approx. 450,- Euro).

The piece shows a lot of wear and a point is even slightly bent, but I agree, the patina and overall appearance are highly attractive.

Another question: what type of gold is that of the Slava 1st Class? I mean if 18, 22 or 24 Carats...

Thank you again and best wishes,

Enzo

Full Cavalier set of the 1st category vs. early labor screwbacks

...., it is not unreasonable to expect the price for Full Cavalier sets to soon cross the $30,000.00 threshold (if not higher).

Dear slava1stclass,

if you have a look at the hammer prices (+ the 15 % buyers premium!) of all the early republican labour screwbacks at Dimitry's NY-auction, then USD 30.000,- for a Glory-Trio of the 1st category appears like a bargain .

The fact is, that a Full Cavalier set of the 1st category is almost as rare, as most of these extremly high-prized labor screwbacks.

Another fact is, that a Glory-Trio has a different historic importance and more prestige as these labor awards of the 1920s and 1930s.

At the moment there seems to be a disproportion in market value ....

Best regards

Christian

Dear Enzo,

well preserved Glory 1cl with a nice gold-patina .

The name of the full cavalier is Юдин Павел Александрович (Pavel Aleksandrovich Yudin).

Glory 1cl: s/n. 1157

Glory 2cl: s/n. 25495

Glory 3cl: s/n. 64860

http://www.mirnagrad.ru

Seems, that comrade Yudin got his Glories in 1944 .

Did you do any research or do you have the entry of Yudin from that reference book: http://www.collectrussia.com/DISPITEM.HTM?ITEM=4206 ?

When and where did you bought your Glory 1cl - which price ?

Very long time ago, you got such nice single Glory 1cl for around EUR 1.000,- ....

Best regards

Christian

A nice photo of General Victor G. Kulikov from 1976.

enjoy.

Lieber Waldemar,

that's interesting, because I guessed, that Kulikov had been among the very first recipients of the "Motherland" 3cl ....

On later photographs he had his "Motherland" 3cl + his (long service) HSU.

Best regards

Christian

Technical aid of US engineers... and masses of forced workers (besides what's shown in official documentary films), but that's another story.

Dear Enzo,

the period of construction 1927 - 1932 was a bit too early for providing "masses of forced workers". There had been "masses" of American specialists, foremen and engineers under the direction of famous US-Colonel H. Cooper, who took part in the construction. All the building machines and the first electrical equipment were imported from the United States .

Most of the super-ambitious projects of Soviet industralization in the late 1920s to the early 1930s had been more or less pure US-affairs, financed and supported with (rather unskilled) labour force by the Soviet government .

At that era, there had been a very intensive economic collaboration between the USA and the CCCP: Money & jobs for the US-economy + industrialization for the CCCP.

The hughe "masses of forced workers" AND POWs rebuilded DneproGES from 1944 to 1949.

Best regards

Christian

the presence of a hydroelectrical plant in the Order of the Red Banner of Labour, besides its significance of progress and modernity, is like a "symbolic translation" of a famous sentence of Lenin: "Коммунизм это есть Советская власть плюс электрификация всей страны!", in other words, "Communism means Soviet Power plus the electrification of the whole country!"

Dear Enzo,

besides of that point, which was in my opinion the main reason for the relief at the order, DneproGES was at that time the most prestigeous and gigantic project in the sphere of labour & economy in the CCCP.

BTW: DneproGES had been built with massive technical aid by US-engineers ...

Best regards

Christian

Dear Auke,

congratulations to your victory .

My own Google-search didn't find any track at all .

BTW: Do you use cyrillc or latin letters with your Google-search ?

Best regards

Christian

It was a much better design than the ugly original "tractor" Order of Lenin anyway.

That's true .

Both types, the early T1 (1928) which shows strong influence of "Russian Constructivism" in design and the later T2 (1936), which is a very fine example of "Socialistic Realism" are outstanding examples of Soviet fine art .

In my opinion, the RBL T2 of 1936 is an extremly "well balanced" and beautiful design .

Best regards

Christian

Have constantly thought about it, but what was the meaning of putting the central image of a dam in the Order of the Red Banner of Labor? Was there a historical link to the time it was issued?

Dear Charles,

the central image of the RBL shows the Dnieper Hydroelectric Station "DneproGES" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DneproGES one of the most famous constructions of the early Stalin era.

Best regards

Christian

BTW: Many years ago my family owned a Lada "Niva" 4 WD - the best cross-country car of it's age, as many tests in car magzines showed. The "Niva" (or "Taiga" in Germany) is still build and exported at very fair prices.

Gentlemen,

coming back to the topic, here are some nice photographs of the Merc 600 from Brezhnev/KGB, which found it's way back to Germany in the early 1990s:

http://www.motor-klassik.de/medien/foto-sh...03456_14700.hbs

The car was built in 1966, has 90.000 km, is in a condition of 2+ and has an estimate price of EUR 105.000,-:

http://www.motor-klassik.de/aktuell/techni...09362_14702.hbs

Some informations about the world's best limousine in the mid 1960s:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_600

Best regards

Christian

Christian, perchance do you have a listing or Brezhnev's awards? Not long ago, his enormous ribbon bar was the subject of much discussion when it was on a JOMSA cover.

Dear Ulsterman,

sorry .... , I only know the usual photographs: 4x HSU, 1x HSL, 2x October, several Lenins, etc., etc., + 7 Lenin-Prizes.

Kogelfranz in SPIEGEL mentiones in addition to Brezhnev's CCCP-awards 15 foreign awards.

If that is true, Marshal Tito had been the No. 1 among the communist "Medal Collectors" - due to the fact, that Tito had an incredible collection of foreign awards. I guess, that Brezhnev got more foreign awards, than Tito.

That's a photograph, before he got his HSU No. 4 and his 2 Octobers:

Best regards

Christian

As historians - let's stick to the facts, not to the trashy sensations from the media.

Dear William,

I started my studies in Soviet history in 1980 with the late Mikhail Voslensky, renowed Soviet historian, adviser of the central commitee, who left the CCCP in 1977 and settled in Austria and Germany. He wrote the famous book "Nomenklatura" http://www.amazon.com/Nomenklatura-Soviet-...y/dp/0385176570 a brilliant analysis (by marxist tools!) of the ruling class in the CCCP during the Brezhnev era. I also spent a lot of private time with Professor Voslensky and he told us the same stories, as Mr. Kogelfranz from SPIEGEL wrote recently.

Have a look at the publications of a Valentin Falin or numerous other key players of the Soviet past: Brezhnev is always presented (with facts!) as a nice & charming fellow, but as somehow a "zombie" of the Soviet military and the KGB.

The historic fact is, that the Politburo elected the weakest and least harmful member as the General Secretary of the party.

Brezhnev had been never THE "leader" of the Soviet Empire - just a cute looking fellow, who spoke, what the Soviet military and the KGB told to him.

Sorry, I just quoted the most recent publications about comrade Brezhnev (Kogelfranz in SPIEGEL) .

Best regards

Christian

Dear Vic,

many thanks for the link .

The official owner of the Merc 600 had not been Brezhnev himself, but the KGB, as the car documents show ...

Best regards

Christian

Hi Christian,

Here is the acctual video which shows Merc and other vehicls that belongned to him:

http://www.russiatoday.ru/features/news/19775/video

It also shows the price but I was unable to catch it

Order of Victory

With all due respect, where did you get this nonsense from?

Dear William,

all that "nonsense" is out of Siegfried Kogelfranz's story about Brezhnev in the current SPIEGEL SPEZIAL 4/2007 "Experiment Kommunismus - Die russische Revolution und ihre Erben", pages 115 - 116.

Kogelfranz had been head of the SPIEGEL's office in Moscow from 1978 to 1981, during the very late Brezhnev era and is the author of the book "Diktatoren im Ruhestand - Die einstigen Ostblockchefs im Gespr?ch" http://www.amazon.de/Diktatoren-Ruhestand-...7237&sr=8-2 .

Well, I posted, that Brezhnev had been "rather uneducated", what doesn't mean, that he was a dummy or idiot. But in comparison, to a Lenin, Stalin or Andropov, he was uneducated.

Of course, he had to read the technical books for finishing his academic degree, but on the other side, he was proud (and told that to anyone), that he never read Marx' "Kapital" or the writings of Lenin properly. Brezhnev never published something and never wrote his speeches himself.

Best regards

Christian

Brezhnev's cars and what he read

Gentlemen,

comrade Brezhnev had about 80 (eighty) private cars - among them, such rare items, as a Citroen-Maserati (gift from France).

Brezhnev never read books or political literature - he was rather uneducated, despite the fact, that he was the bearer of 7 (seven) Lenin-Prizes (one for literature ).

His reading focused to car magzines and magazines about circus and their artists - no joke, that's the plain truth .

In his earlier years comrade Brezhnev was hunting women and in his later (impotent) years he was hunting game.

People told, that he had been a nice and charming person, but I am not sure, if Brezhnev was really a 2nd Lenin or Stalin .

Best regards

Christian

BTW: What's the condition of the MB 600 and the estimate prize ?

Hammer prices at NYC-auction

Gentlemen,

besides of some (very) rare (labour) screwbacks, the hammer prices at Dimitry's auction showed just the expected market situation, if you take the exchange relation of USD vs. EUR and the growing demand from Russia into account:

A Glory 1cl in the price region of USD 12.000,- + (incl. buyer's fee) is for my understanding (and taking the rarity and importance of that order into consideration) a rather "fair" price. In comparison to a RBL T2, a Glory 1cl is quite a bargain .

Only items, which had been already out of reach for most collectors, skyrocketed to unbelievable heights: Neither I would spend USD 15.000,-, nor USD 150.000,- for a Lenin T2 screwback, because I don't have the money ....

Just my 2 cents about the recent market situation ...

Best regards

Christian

On the following picture is presented the badge which arrived in my collection last week. The badge measures about 2 cm in diameter. It seems to be an air defence badge (PVO = protiv vazdu?na odbrana = air defence). But this is the only thing that I can guess about this badge.

Dear Sebastijan,

that nicely designed badge looks rather similar in design to the (standard) YU-Guards-badge.

That might indicate, that the YU-anti-rocket-troops had automatically a "Guards-level" ?

Best regards

Christian

Dear Marc,

congratulations to your victory .

Best regards

Christian

Jim,

Wouldn't this be Gary Powers' U2 that was shot down on 01 May 1960 while on a spying flight from Pakistan to Norway?

As far as I remember, Powers parachuted out when his plane was shot down over Sverdlovsk by a SAM-2 ground-air missile while being trailed by a Mig-21 and was captured upon landing. He was captured, and then tried publicly before being exchanged for Colonel Rudolf Abel.

Marc

it sounds strange that in museums there are crudely made cast copies on display, when the Soviet State Mint produced orders made for museum display: those pieces were marked and/or engraved "Образец" on the reverse.

Could it be possible that many original (or official copies) pieces have been sold in the '80s and now substituted with less-valuable copies?

Dear Enzo,

I had been offered by my dealer in Vienna in 1995 a Образец-Suvorov-1cl for an apple and an egg (price for an rather old used Volkswagen Golf at that time). It was an extraordinary beautiful item, platin and 100 % ident to the numbered ones from the mint. I didn't bought the Suvorov, because I didn't had the money and the order was obviously stolen or "purchased" from a Russian museum.

I guess, that our "comrades" in the adminstration of the museums sold first their Образец-items and then the s/n. ones and replaced them with crude fakes. We have to remember, that the 1990s had been a hard time for Russia ... Now these items - which spent some years in the west - are going back to Russia into the bank vaults of some Russian collectors.

Best regards

Christian

Has anyone a list of Dimitry's hammer prices ?

Gentlemen,

I almost can't believe the posted prices for the Soviet items .

But the prices for the Imperial stuff went already last year at the London-auction crazy and now USD 500k for a boxed "St. Anne" .

Has anyone the list of Dimitry's already ?

Best regards

Christian

I would say at least $1300.

Dear Oleg,

you might be right.

I just checked the PMD "Red Bible" and Paul gives the T1 / V1 a rarity rating of "4", what's really rare.

The very first form of the "Valour Medal" goes up to s/n. 26.819 - so, this a very early item .

Best regards

Christian

These awards historically were selling slightly above the price of the metal content.

Dear William,

that had been really the reality in the 1990s and early 2000s - the price of the Lenins went up and down with the price of gold .

At least Igor offers for USD 2k an Lenin T5 / V1 with the dimple on the av. ...

Does anyone have any results of Dimitry's N.Y.-auction of today ?

Best regards

Christian

I can see where some members might take offense to this. There is no need for this type of comment.

Dear Paul,

you are right - economic commentaries without context to military history are not needed at GMIC .

I want to excuse myself towards the citizens of the USA at GMIC, that I posted here a "might be" commentary about the future of your great nation, which has won (at least) the "Cold War" against the "Soviet Empire" in military history.

If someone might be interested in the history of US-economics, please have a look into the numerous publications of the renowed US-economist John Kenneth Galbraith http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kenneth_Galbraith . He was an important figure in Roosevelt's US-war-economics during WW II and published some great studies about the subject .

Best regards

Christian