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    Christian Zulus

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    Posts posted by Christian Zulus

      Full Cavaliers of the Order of Glory - Present Day Market Realities

      in Russia: Soviet Orders, Medals & Decorations

      Posted

      Vasiliy Odnorogov, full Cavalier of the Order of Glory - set of the 1st category

      Dear "slava1stclass",

      many thanks for posting that amazing new offer from Igor's website just in "Echtzeit" :cheers: .

      It doesen't happen too frequently, to see a category-1-set at the market.

      Well, the price tag - just below EUR 15.000,- :jumping: - is really sweet and I think, rather moderate for such a set of the 1st category :D .

      What's interesting - besides the very "young" photograph ;) - is, that the 3 Orders of Glory look somehow cleaned & polished. 2cl & 3cl look like the have some sort of "silver wash" on them and the gold plating of the 2cl seems to be renewed. No patina at all :unsure: .

      What's the sense of putting a photograph as a young man into a veterans Cavalier-ID-booklet, which is used almost everyday for getting the numerous benefits of a Cavalier :speechless::unsure: ?

      Due to the fact, that Igor's Glory-set will be sold within short time, I post some scans of this set here.

      Best regards :beer:

      Christian

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      patizan medal 1st class

      in Russia: Soviet Orders, Medals & Decorations

      Posted

      Why would the price on the second class be higher than the First Class? Were there fewer second classes awarded?

      Dear Paul,

      that's an excellent question :cheers: .

      Well, there might be a certain uncertainity about the issued items in each class.

      Herfurth writes in the 1980s about "more than 56.000" 1cl and "about 71.000" 2cl. The same author writes in the year 2003 "about 57.000" 1cl and "about 71.000" 2cl.

      It's very interesting, that Putnikov in 1990 doesn't discuss 1cl vs. 2cl, but states, that (from both classes) there had been "more than 127.000" confered.

      It might be, that actually the number of issued (or strucked) Partisan 2cl is smaller, than 1cl :unsure:AND if a partisan gets an award, than his deed will be in most of the cases rather very heroic, so a 1cl might be more approbriate.

      Another point for the sometime higher price for a 2cl might be it's gold wash. Maybe some collector might think, that a golden Partisan Medal is superior to a silver one :speechless: .

      Or - rather simply - the 2cl is rarer at the market, than the 1cl and due the laws of capitalistic economy, the 2cl commands then a higher price.

      Best regards :beer:

      Christian

      BTW: I love very much the design of the Partisan Medal and N. I. Moskalyov is my favorite designer of Soviet Awards (Order of Glory, Kutuzov, etc.) :love: .

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      patizan medal 1st class

      in Russia: Soviet Orders, Medals & Decorations

      Posted

      Last time I checked, they fetched about the same price as the first class. Does this hold true?

      Dear Paul,

      it usually should roughly be so, but some dealers even asked more for a 2cl as for a 1cl.

      Looking back the last 15 years, the 2cl had been in most cases a few bucks cheaper, than the 1cl.

      The gold wash of the 2cl is a bit sensitive and often not well preserved. 1cl is pure silver and besides of patina, there should be no problems.

      Best regards :beer:

      Christian

      0

      patizan medal 1st class

      in Russia: Soviet Orders, Medals & Decorations

      Posted

      Dear Paddy,

      congratulations to that very well preserved Partisan 1cl :cheers: .

      It looks problem free and should command a rather high price, if you are going to sell the medal.

      My Partisan 1cl has also a new ribbon on the old suspension.

      Dimitry asks USD 490,- for such a medal, but in a condition a few ranks below your medal.

      For my taste, all the partisan stuff sells still far too cheap, as the Helsinki-auction showed ... :rolleyes:

      Maybe wait 1 or 2 years with trading the medal :unsure: .

      Best regards :beer:

      Christian

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      Drooling...

      in Russia: Soviet Orders, Medals & Decorations

      Posted

      For those who like Red Banners more than they like gold stars (and have a "spare" $53K!), see:

      http://collectrussia.com/DISPITEM.HTM?ITEM=17858

      :speechless1::speechless1::speechless1:

      Dear Ed,

      another great group offered by Igor :D .

      Anyhow, if I would be a really rich collector, I would invest the money into the HSU-group of Valerian Mikhailovich Turygin, because it is more interesting from the historic viewpoint, more "heroic", fighter pilot counts more, than bomber pilot and Turygin made also a good career during the Cold War till 1960, when he retired.

      AND you will save USD 21.000,- ;)

      Well, screwback RBs #3 & #2 are something very special, but a RB #4 is also not soooo bad .... :rolleyes: .

      Best regards :beer:

      Christian

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      Drooling...

      in Russia: Soviet Orders, Medals & Decorations

      Posted · Edited by Christian Zulus

      Valerian Mikhailovich Turygin - Валерьян Михайлович Турыгин

      Soviet fighter ace, commander of the 813 IAP and HSU

      Gentlemen,

      due to the fact, that Igor's offered group http://www.collectrussia.com/DISPITEM.HTM?ITEM=17396 is really something, I collected some informations about comrade Turygin.

      Valerian Mikhailovich Turygin was born at the 1st of june in 1914 in Smolensk and died at the 6th of november 2000 in Leningrad. He commanded the 813 IAP in the GPW and had the rank of a major. He retired in 1960 with the rank of a colonel.

      He scored 13 victories + 4 shared victories + destroyed 7 enemy aircrafts on the airfields during the GPW, so he should have received his HSU during the GPW or the years after (a score of 10 arial victories should result in a HSU). But he got his catch-up HSU in 1991, just some month before the collaps of the Soviet Union and he might be the last GPW-pilot to whom a HSU had been confered.

      Question: Why did our fighter ace get his deserved HSU so extremly late :unsure: ?

      Comprehensive informations (in Russian language :( ) about Turygin's career and life can be found here:

      http://airaces.narod.ru/all10/turygin.htm

      http://www.warheroes.ru/hero/hero.asp?Hero_id=3135

      http://tuapse-victory.by.ru/turygin.htm

      What makes that group of orders, medals, document and log books so special?

      1) The awardee had been a fighter ace, who destroyed 24 enemy aircrafts.

      2) The set is complete and full documented.

      3) It includes a HSU and a (de facto long service) RB #4.

      4) The awardee had been GPW-commander of the 813 IAP and served till 1960 during the Cold War.

      5) It is one of the latest confered HSU-medals in the history of the CCCP.

      6) HSU-star + Lenin are in an absolute mint condition of almost 10/10.

      7) Some log books and GPW combat score reports are within the set ( :jumping: ).

      If you deduct the long service awards, our comrade got the following orders for pure military merits & heroic deeds:

      - HSU + Lenin

      - 3x RB (all GPW!)

      - OPW 1cl

      - OPW 2cl

      - RS

      Well, I guess, that this is the last time, to see such an outstanding set at the market.

      Best regards :beer:

      Christian

      0

      Flag 5 cl.

      in Southern European & Balkan States

      Posted

      Christian!

      I think this is known fact.

      Who create " a scientific and phaleristic meaning " ?

      We - Collectors !!! ;)

      There are different reverses,rivets and of course number!

      Dear Anatoly,

      you are right: The rivets are different and so it is a special variant :cheers: .

      Mint mark & s/n. wouldn't really count in phaleristics ;) .

      Phaleristics is a true & authentic sience :D . That field belongs to the numismatic science and you can obtain an M.A. or Ph.D. in numismatics at the University of Vienna - not many universities offer such a program ... :rolleyes:

      So, we face collectors AND academics ....

      Best regards :beer:

      Christian

      0

      Replicas

      in Russia: Soviet Orders, Medals & Decorations

      Posted

      Christian -- I get your point. But I have a problem here, most of what I have, groups (mostly in groups) or not in groups, is -- or will be -- researched. These medals therefore demonstrably "belong" to someone else whose uniform this is not. Do I have the right to put THEIR medals on HIS uniform? This may be dumb, but 'tis me being a historian. (I do have some hope of getting one uniform that does match with a group I have, though not Soviet, further south.)

      Dear Ed,

      you are right, from an ethic viewpoint it would be very inapprobriate to use researched orders and medals for decorating a uniform, if it is not the authentic uniform of the original owner of the orders and medals :jumping: .

      Best regards :beer:

      Christian

      0

      Zhukov Post War Picture

      in Russia: Soviet Orders, Medals & Decorations

      Posted

      Imagine the $$$ on his uniform :jumping:

      - Victory

      - Victory

      - Order of Freedom (Yugoslavia)

      - HSU #4

      - HSU #3

      - HSU #2

      - Marshal-Star

      - Suvorov 1cl

      - Suvorov 1cl

      Gentlemen,

      guess about the current market prices for these items .... :rolleyes:

      Well, each of these decorations would be in the 6-digit-Dollar region and I would say, that Zhukov's two "Order of Victory" might be sold for far more than 1 million USD each .... :speechless1::jumping::P .

      Best regards :beer:

      Christian

      0

      Drooling...

      in Russia: Soviet Orders, Medals & Decorations

      Posted

      Still there. Still $32,000.

      Save your small change?

      Gentlemen,

      that's really strange, that such an outstanding group with such an (relativly) very moderate price tag doesn't sell :unsure: ?

      AND the group is getting cheaper and cheaper and cheaper, due to the fact, that Igor asks weak US-Dollars :D .

      In the moment the European (Russian) price for Igor's group is in the 22.000 EURO + region.

      O.K., maybe some wise guys speculate to get the HSU-group for less than 20.000 EURO ... :rolleyes:

      Well, I would love that group, but I neither have that amount of cash in my drawer, nor do I want to swap my Glory-Cavalier-group of 1st category + my Kutuzov 2cl for Igor's group ;) .

      Best regards :beer:

      Christian

      0

      Labor medal

      in Southern European & Balkan States

      Posted

      Dear Bryan,

      sorry ..... , I think, I had a complete black-out :blush: .

      Of course, YU-awards have ribbons in Russian style AND Austrian style :rolleyes: .

      Best regards :beer:

      Christian

      Christian, I guess it is not correct for this kind of medal. What I find interesting is that all the jubilee medals and few others have this kind of ribbon. So it has nothing to do with monarchist-oriented comrade. I guess it's just the tradition mixed with the Russian tradition with the 5 sided suspensions. Maybe all medals that first came from Moscow during WWII were with 5 sided suspensions and then when the IKOM initiated their own medals and design, they switched to the triangle style ribbon.

      I don't know if there is a real explanation for that, but keep in mind that both ribbon style did coexist in the Ex-Yugoslavia.

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