Christian Zulus

Some VERY VERY interesting pieces... e.g. Lenin Peace Prize anyone?

Dear Bob,

many thanks for the information, that Dimitry's catalogue is online .

Is this possible ... ?

2318 Order of Glory 3rd Class. Type 2. Award # 808111.

Scarce variation with serial number engraved with rotating-tool. Among the last ones

issued. Possible Afghanistan award.

I guess, that the Soviet Union did not award Glories for service in Afghanistan ....

Dimitry offers two Order of Glory full cavalier sets - one for USD 30K and the other for USD 20K starting price (+ buyer' premium, fees etc.).

He also offers a Kutuzov 2cl - researched! - at a starting price of USD 15K, which is a real bargain, I guess :

2297 Order of Kutuzov 2nd Class. Type 2. Award # 2421.

Variation 2 (with 5-rivets on reverse). Original silver nut.

Comes with copies of official research from Ministry of Defense of Russian Federation

(include photo) ? awarded to Guards Colonel A. Eremenko, HQ Operations Dept.

Commander of 3rd Guards Tank Army (under command of legendary commander

Ribalko). English translation attached.

Also comes with Certificate of Authenticity from Paul McDaniel (high 9 out of 10

condition rating).

Condition: Excellent with medium patina. Problem free $ 15,000

Most of Dimitry's starting prices reflect the (rather high) level of the market for high-end awards, but quite a few of them (specially groups) appear at an uncommon low price.

Photographs of the items are - as usual in Dimitry's catalogues - of very poor quality ...

Gentlemen, what's your opinion about Dimtry Markov's New York Sale ?

Best regards

Christian

Rather drastic price reduction

A very nice cavalier group has come up from New Jersey.

$26K . . .

http://www.collectrussia.com/DISPITEM.HTM?ITEM=19569

Gentlemen,

this outstanding OLG cavaliers group is now on sale at Igor's website for USD 19,5K :

http://www.collectrussia.com/DISPITEM.HTM?ITEM=19568

Best regards

Christian

If no one has better to propose, I will consider this question solved / answered, and will propose another challenge before tonight (Paris time).

Dear Christophe,

excellent idea .

You are the winner - Polish Armies .

There is not much traffic in posting in the Soviet section - due to economic crisis and high prices for Soviet awards ?

Best regards

Christian

. . . the recent Morton & Eden "Russian Sale" on 26 November 2008 (and a rather strange sale it was) had:

323 - trio (1:1091, 2:27980, 3:66225), mounted but unattributed and undocumented - est. ?5000-6000, sold at ?12000 (around $18450.50)

321-single 1st class #1438, unattributed and undocumented - est. ?5000-6000, sold at ?5500 (around $8456.47)

322- single 1st class #1833, unattributed and undocumented - est. ?4000-5000, sold at ?6000 (around $9225.24)

All plus 15% buyer's premium, as normal.

These were among the FEW lots which sold at/near or above the estimate, most were much below or went unsold.

Dear Ed,

I checked all the s/n. of the full cavalier set and of the two sinlge Glory 1cl: All of them are listed and had been awarded.

Well, the market seems to be a bit strange at the moment:

A full cavalier set sold in Italy for USD 40.000,- and in the UK for a bit more than USD 21.000,- (and Igor is still waiting for a buyer for his outstanding cavalier set - fully researched and documented + some more medals & badges - for USD 28.000,-). O.K., in London the cavaliers booklet was missing ...

The hammer prices of the single Glories 1cl - around +/- USD 10.000,- - seem also to be rather a bargain.

It seems, that rare pieces still are selling, but there is a wide range of hammer prices .

The other fact might be, that the Russian Ruble is under heavy pressure - seems to be at least 25 % over the actual value .

Best regards

Christian

gentlemen, I need yours opinions. I have the opportunity to save a 3 orders group (brotherhood 2nd, merit to the people 3, bravery) all documented, with box and ribon, for one woman. Would it be a good set? I'm puzzled the person got the fraternity and bravery on the same date...

Dear Sebastien,

I guess, that's not an untypical group:

Bravery & Brotherhood 2cl are most likely (catch-up) WW II awards (a wide range of Red Army officers received the Brotherhood 2cl ...) and the Merit 3cl might be for a jubilee in the (civil) job - i.e.: 25 years for being a "political correct" civil servant or so.

The Partisan Star in it's 3 classes had been rather rare and I guess, that most of the comrades (male & female) got Brotherhood and/or bravery for taking part in the war against Nazi-Germany - in a rather wide range of functions and positions.

Best regards

Christian

"Merits for the RKKA"-badge

Sold for less than EUR 100,- at Enzo's auction last day ....

Best regards

Christian

Results are up and an AMAZING number of lots went unsold.

Dear Ed,

that's true in a certain sense, but the sought after items and groups went away at very, very high prices. The overall result of Enzo's auction might have been well above the estimates in terms of cash.

I guess, that two reasons might have caused the rather large number of unsold items:

- maybe too high reserve prices

- a number of Russian collectors didn't take part at the auction.

It seems, that the economic crisis (still ?) doesn't affect the prices for top items or groups at all - the Russian collectors still have enough cash & interest to buy the gems of Soviet history.

Some prices (incl. buyer's fee and in USD at the current exchange rate):

- Glory full cavalier set (unresearched): USD 40.000,-

- RBL screwback Type 2 / Version 3: almost USD 9.000,-

- RB #2: USD 4.600,- and USD 3.350,-

- Kutuzov 2cl: USD 27.300,- and USD 18.300,-

Besides the heroic & historic value, Soviet awards seem to be an better "investment", than anything else .

Best regards

Christian

Klimenko's Glory 1cl not sold

Gentlemen,

Klimenko's Glory 1cl remained unsold.

I guess, that the reserve price had been too high and that the Russian collectors prefere full cavalier sets .

Best regards

Christian

Glory 1cl s/n. 265 at Enzo's auction

Gentlemen,

I have checked the serial number of this item at MIR NAGRAD http://www.mirnagrad.ru/cgi-bin/exinform.c...idimg=035ab.jpg and the entry says, that the Glory 1cl had been awarded to comrade Jakov Seliverstovich Klimenko (Яков Селиверстович Клименко).

Историческая справка:

КЛИМЕНКО Яков Селиверстович, род. в 1921 в с. Боровка ныне Макаровского р-на Киев обл. в семье крестьянина. Украинец. Член КПСС с 1943. Окончил 7 классов, курсы водителей. Работал в г. Новоград-Волынский Житомир, обл. В Кр. Армии с мая 1941. С началом Вел. Отеч. войны на фронте. Мех.-водитель танка Т-34 91-й танк, бригады (9-й мех. корпус, 3-я гв. танк, армия, 1-й Укр. фронт) ст. сержант К. в составе экипажа 18?20.7.44 в бою у с. Сасов (Золочевский р-н Львов, обл.) подавил пушку пр-ка, миномет, батарею, 3 пулемет, точки, разбил 6 автомобилей с боеприпасами, 7 повозок, истребил большое кол-во враж. солдат и офицеров. 12.8.44 нагр. орд. Славы 3 ст. 27.01.45 К. с экипажем в бою за нас. пункт Орнонтовице (13 км юго-зап. г. Глейвиц ? ныне Гливице, Польша) подбил 2 танка и 2 БТР. Гусеницами танка уничтожил 5 орудий, 3 пулемет, точки, 10 автомобилей, 4 повозки с боеприпасами и воен. имуществом, 3 мотоцикла и вывел из строя св. 20 гитлеровцев. 7.3.45 нагр. орд. Славы 2 ст. В боях 16.4?8.5.45, умело управляя танком при прорыве обороны пр-ка на подступах к Берлину, а также в уличных боях, огнем и гусеницами уничтожил много живой силы и техники пр-ка. 27.6.45 нагр. орд. Славы 1 ст. В 1945 демобилизован. Вернулся в родное село. Работал пред. колхоза. Нагр. орд. Отечественной войны 2 ст., Красной Звезды, медалями. Умер в апр. 1956.

The estimate of the item is again - according to my humble opinion - at the current market level, I guess .

Best regards

Christian

Kazakov's Glory full cavalier set sold for USD 40.000,-

Gentlemen,

Kazokov's set had been sold for USD 40.000,- (incl. buyer's fee and current excange rate EUR vs. USD).

Well, that's a good price for an unresearched and most likely non-category 1 cavalier set .

Question: What might be the current market price for a completly researched category 1 set ?

Best regards

Christian

BTW: It's interesting, that Igor's Glory full cavalier set - completly researched, category 2, Glory 1cl in 7/10 condition and some additional medals and badges - http://www.collectrussia.com/DISPITEM.HTM?ITEM=19626 still remains unsold for the "bargain" price of USD 28.000,- ?

Glory full cavalier set at Enzo's auction

Gentlemen,

I have checked the serial numbers of this set at MIR NAGRAD http://www.mirnagrad.ru/cgi-bin/exinform.c...;ич and the entry says, that the 3 Glories had been awarded to comrade Vasily Aleksandrovich Kazakov (Василий Александрович Казаков). All the serial numbers are correct.

According to POBEDITELI http://www.pobediteli.ru/russia/povolzhye/...ya/k/index.html comrade Kazakov was borne on the 4th of March 1924, so he received his Glories as a rather young man.

Enzo shows only two pages of the cavalier's booklet to us and so it's not possible, to make out the exact category (according to the classification of slava1stclass) of the set.

The estimate of the set is - according to my humble opinion - at the current market level, I guess : Full cavalier sets of the top categories are extremly rare and the Order of Glory is something very special in the history of the GPW.

Best regards

Christian

Could they be catholic, from Poland ?

Dear Christophe,

that's absolutly correct - congratulations

Some more details - maybe a picture .... and you are the winner .

Best regards

Christian

Gentlemen,

Enzo ("Elmar Lang" at GMIC http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showuser=3114 ) organized an outstanding auction with communist items and lots for the 22nd of November 2008 in Genoa, Italy: THE RED AUCTION.

http://www.sangiorgioaste.com/eng-site/index2.asp

http://www.sangiorgioaste.com/cataloghi-online/cat_a6.html

The numerous YU-items start with #980 and you can really bid for almost everything - except the "Order of Freedom" .

Starting prices and estimates a very, very moderate and the quality of the items is 1st class.

Have a look .

Best regards

Christian

One more hint ...

Gentlemen,

which armies were fighting with support of their numerous battle-field chaplains at the Eastern Front against the Germans in WW II ?

Best regards

Christian

NIS 01 -- Kiev Artillery??

Dear Ed,

strange coincident:

I got this veteran badge as a small present in 1996 from the deputy-military attache of the Ukraine in Vienna, Lt Col Vladimir Popov, who started his military career at the Soviet Artillery.

Best regards

Christian

Sorry for such a long and rambling post.

Please, what do others think?

Dear Ed,

great historic & economic survey - congratulations

Best regards

Christian

Glory 1cl s/n. 265 at Enzo's auction

Gentlemen,

I have checked the serial number of this item at MIR NAGRAD http://www.mirnagrad.ru/cgi-bin/exinform.c...idimg=035ab.jpg and the entry says, that the Glory 1cl had been awarded to comrade Jakov Seliverstovich Klimenko (Яков Селиверстович Клименко).

Историческая справка:

КЛИМЕНКО Яков Селиверстович, род. в 1921 в с. Боровка ныне Макаровского р-на Киев обл. в семье крестьянина. Украинец. Член КПСС с 1943. Окончил 7 классов, курсы водителей. Работал в г. Новоград-Волынский Житомир, обл. В Кр. Армии с мая 1941. С началом Вел. Отеч. войны на фронте. Мех.-водитель танка Т-34 91-й танк, бригады (9-й мех. корпус, 3-я гв. танк, армия, 1-й Укр. фронт) ст. сержант К. в составе экипажа 18?20.7.44 в бою у с. Сасов (Золочевский р-н Львов, обл.) подавил пушку пр-ка, миномет, батарею, 3 пулемет, точки, разбил 6 автомобилей с боеприпасами, 7 повозок, истребил большое кол-во враж. солдат и офицеров. 12.8.44 нагр. орд. Славы 3 ст. 27.01.45 К. с экипажем в бою за нас. пункт Орнонтовице (13 км юго-зап. г. Глейвиц ? ныне Гливице, Польша) подбил 2 танка и 2 БТР. Гусеницами танка уничтожил 5 орудий, 3 пулемет, точки, 10 автомобилей, 4 повозки с боеприпасами и воен. имуществом, 3 мотоцикла и вывел из строя св. 20 гитлеровцев. 7.3.45 нагр. орд. Славы 2 ст. В боях 16.4?8.5.45, умело управляя танком при прорыве обороны пр-ка на подступах к Берлину, а также в уличных боях, огнем и гусеницами уничтожил много живой силы и техники пр-ка. 27.6.45 нагр. орд. Славы 1 ст. В 1945 демобилизован. Вернулся в родное село. Работал пред. колхоза. Нагр. орд. Отечественной войны 2 ст., Красной Звезды, медалями. Умер в апр. 1956.

The estimate of the item is again - according to my humble opinion - at the current market level, I guess .

Best regards

Christian

Glory full cavalier set at Enzo's auction

Gentlemen,

I have checked the serial numbers of this set at MIR NAGRAD http://www.mirnagrad.ru/cgi-bin/exinform.c...;ич and the entry says, that the 3 Glories had been awarded to comrade Vasily Aleksandrovich Kazakov (Василий Александрович Казаков). All the serial numbers are correct.

According to POBEDITELI http://www.pobediteli.ru/russia/povolzhye/...ya/k/index.html comrade Kazakov was borne on the 4th of March 1924, so he received his Glories as a rather young man.

Enzo shows only two pages of the cavalier's booklet to us and so it's not possible, to make out the exact category (according to the classification of slava1stclass) of the set.

The estimate of the set is - according to my humble opinion - at the current market level, I guess : Full cavalier sets of the top categories are extremly rare and the Order of Glory is something very special in the history of the GPW.

Best regards

Christian

explain me why please? since USD is weaker than euro, he has a shortfall to compensate...

No, please have a look at the graph at my first posting at this thread:

The Euro lost a got deal of it's value against the Dollar - that's a fact.

And you have to consider the constantly growing demand for Soviet items by Russian collectors over the last years.

So, there is no point for a "compensation" you might expect, I guess.

It's a long time ago, when the Dollar had been stronger than the Euro ...

Best regards

Christian

Dear Wild Card,

dear Enzo,

highly interesting and valid remarks to the current situation .

The fact is, that the prices for Soviet items in Euros didn't change at all during the last weeks or months at auctions or in retail business.

The other fact is, that the Euro got rather weak against the Dollar and so the price tags in USD got rather friendly for the US-collector.

From the main dealers in Vienna, I got the recent information, that there had been almost no change in the buying behaviour of the Russian collectors concerning Soviet items at the last auctions here in Europe.

Concerning liquidity: It's easier to buy some Soviet items for some 10k bucks (and to sell them), than to buy a top-class flat in the city of Vienna or a luxurious country estate in the Austrian Alps (Kitzb?hel etc.), where you have to invest millions of Euros.

An important question remains: Who are the typical collectors in Russia of Soviet items ? I guess, it's the well off middle class and not the well known oligarchs . There is a growing middle class in Russia, who earns much more money, than in the EU or in the USA working in the same jobs.

Another fact is, that the financial crisis seems now to be stabilized some how by the governments of the western countries. If they really can tackle the problems, than liquidity will return to the markets for investments, I guess. Consider: The interest rates for loans are now at a very low level .

There might be a decrease in the hammer prices for ultra-rare and ultra-high-priced items in the moment, but I don't think, there will be a sharp decline in the prices for nice "middle-class" items (i.e. HSU, Glory 1cl, Nevsky, Lenin etc.) - calculating in Euros. Just my theory in the moment ...

Best regards

Christian

Arrrggghhhh!!!!!!

Dear Paul,

don't worry, Igor lowered his asked prices .

Best regards

Christian

Seeing multiple 'text book examples' for sale should give a hint that someone in the know thinks they see the apex, the top of a bubble.

I noticed that for more than 2 years - the "Red-Bible" is almost sold out .

The fact is, that some friends of us, well known ex-owners of outstanding Soviet collections, already sold all (or nearly all) of their Soviet stuff to Russian collectors.

Best regards

Christian

Well, he also lowered some prices:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?s=&showtop...st&p=302992

Full cavalier set of Labour Glory http://www.collectrussia.com/DISPITEM.HTM?ITEM=19568 had been USD 26.000,- and is offered now for USD 22.000,- ..... almost a bargain

It's interesting, Igor didn't reduce the asked prices for all sorts of (military) Glory .

Best regards

Christian

Igor will increase its prices in dollars to correct the euro/USD parity. He already did so.

I guess, you typed wrong and you wanted to type: Igor will DEcrease its prices .....

Otherwise your message will have now logic ...

Best regards

Christian

Gentlemen,

maybe due to the fact, that the collectors from Russia might calculate in EUR and not in USD, some items and groups at Igor's website http://www.collectrussia.com/ got really cheaper in USD .

The EUR lost a lot of exchange-value against the USD the last months:

Gentlemen, what do you think about the reason, why Soviet awards are getting cheaper in USD ?

Best regards

Christian

Question #216

Gentlemen,

the new question at Christophe's quiz is again a rather easy (and logic) one:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?s=&showtop...st&p=301782

It's generally about battle-field chaplains within the rows of the Red Army (+ allies) at the Eastern Front. That might sound a bit queer, but it's a historic fact .

Happy hunting

Christian

Dear Wild Card,

many thanks for your interesting observations .

I don't see, that there is anything like a "bubble" in our market - just the ordinary supply & demand mechanism. BTW: There is also no "bubble" in the market for ultra-luxurious housing (flats, estates etc.), where the prices are still at ultra-high level.

Your important observation: It seems, that the basic currency in our market is the EURO and not the USD.

That explains, why the price for a 08/15-Lenin is constant in EURO, but dropped in USD.

The market for old & classic art (paintings etc.) is - at least in Vienna (a lot of Russian people have their residences in the city!) flourishing.

Best regards

Christian

Gentlemen,

This is very interesting. Has the bubble burst? I do not think so, but I would like to offer a couple of observations.

First, I saw somewhere (I think that it was on the other forum) that the prices of Lenin Orders, in US$, has dropped noticeably of late. I think that part of the reason for this lies in the phrase ?in US$? because the US$ has gained considerable strength against many other currencies such as the Euro (18%+) and British ? (25%) in the past year or so. For this reason, it is helpful if we keep things in the native currency, usually Euros, whenever possible.

Next, I was present at the Andreas Thies auction on 31 October and, in my opinion, bidding by the Russian clients was solid at best; but certainly lacked the enthusiasm and competition seen in recent years - lethargic at best.

With regard to art auctions, Sotheby's season opener was hardly a roaring success. The following article -

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jF5H7HE...gp-icAD948LBIG3

alludes to the lack of enthusiastic Russian bidders. Another article, which I cannot find at the moment, is less charitable. It is no secret that in the art world, taken as a whole, the Russian so-called collectors are more often looked upon with amusement than disdain. Sound familiar?

Regards,

Wild Card