Kev in Deva

Here is a picture of a Romanian bar in the Romanian Military Museum it shows 5 battle-bars:-

Kevin in Deva.

Hallo Alex,

Admittedly the "STALINGRAD" bar picture suffers definition loss when blown up,

however, the letters (to my eyes) S T A - I N - - A D can be made out,

Add that to the fact there is no other Romanian battle bar ending in the letter "D"

convinces me that such a bar did indeed exist, add that to the fact that the person wearing the bar

was in the Romanian Airforce and was in all likelihood one of the lucky ones able to escape the encirclement,

unlike many of the Romanian ground troops.

But, if you are in doubt of course you can wait until better documentary evidence comes to light.

Kevin in Deva.

With regards the Crusade Against Communism medal, many Germans preferred the medal to be mounted backwards showing the sword in the design as opposed to the profile of the woman,

this observation is backed-up by many period pictures showing the medal in question.

Kevin in Deva.

The Romanian's were awarded the KRIM shield, for sure,as I have the award Urkunde to a Romanian soldier

obtained direct from a family friend here in Romania.

The Romanian Armoured Car Battalion T-38 consisting of the 51st, 52nd, and 53rd independent companies,

15 Pzkpfw 38 (f) tanks each, and five tanks kept in the battalion reserve, subordinate to the 2nd Armoured Car Regiment, also served in KUBAN, at the Taman bridgehead, so its very possible they were authorised

the German KUBAN Shield.

Some of these personnel later went on to serve in the Kerch Peninsular also at Eltigen and Perekop Isthmus,

by April 1944 they had withdrawn towards Sevastopol and were evacuated to Romania by sea in Mid-May 1944.

Kevin in Deva. :beer:

Hallo Alec,

patience young grasshopper, I am busy searching for a picture of your S.C. Cross being worn by a German, I know I have seen one somewhere, and I also have this particular cross mounted German style on a single spange that I picked up many moons ago in Kempten, Allgäu at a Floh-makt.

It makes sense that all Romanian war time awards would be presentable inter-Axis so to say, in the spirit of fostering good friendship amongst the militaries, the same for German WW2 awards such as the E.K., KVK, Krim Shield, Frozen Flesh medal etc..etc..

I believe the S.C. Cross or even medal would have been issued too a non-commissioned rank.

Some of the Romanian battle bars mentioned above are extremely rare and the possibility exists some were never awarded to German troops, so no Urkunde, many Romanian Brevets / Urkunde were shredded immediately the Romanians went over to the Soviets, possession of such incriminating anti-communist paperwork could get one shot out of hand or sent to one of the immediate post war re-education camps that were set up by the Soviet influenced Romanian Communist Party in the early R.P.R. Period.

The "Stalingrad" bar was thought by many collectors here in Romania to be a fantasy until a picture emerged of a Romanian Pilot wearing one:-

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_03_2012/post-950-0-35021900-1332762495.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_03_2012/post-950-0-23304000-1332762513.jpg

please note he also has the ribbon for the German Iron Cross II Class (position 4) and German Frozen Flesh medal (position 5.)

Kevin in Deva. :beer:

Cased Decoration/Document Grouping Awarded to German Cross in Gold Recipient Luftwaffe Oberleutnant Dieter Ritter von Klipstein.

This grouping of awards and decorations was awarded to Luftwaffe Flak Artillery Officer Oberleutnant Dieter Ritter von Klipstein who served with the Luftwaffe forces in Rumania. The following awards and documents are included in the grouping:

1. German Cross in Gold w/Document. Cross is maker-marked, "20" (C.F. Zimmermann) and grades Near MINT with no damage to the swastika enamel. Document shows light age with minor tears to edges and has been folded. Document is complete with facsimile of Göring's signature and is dated, "2. Dezember 1942". Cross is also complete with interim award document.

2. Promotion Document to Leutnant. Document shows light age with minor tears to edges and has been folded. Document is complete with facsimile of Göring's signature and dated, "8. November 1938". Exc+

3. 1939 Iron Cross 1st Class. Cross is maker-marked, "26" (B.H. Mayer) grading Near MINT with minor specks of patina to silver frame and no loss of enamel to the iron center.

4. Medal Bar w/6 Decorations. Decorations are parade mounted with red felt backing and complete with attaching pin. Ribbons and medals grade Near MINT with no wear and virtually no age to fabric or medals. The following decorations are included on the medal bar:

a. 1939 Iron Cross 2nd Class.

b. Russian Front Medal w/Document. Document shows minor age and has been folded and dated, "23. Sept. 1942".

c. Royal Bulgarian Order of Military Merit w/Cross, War Decoration, and War Decoration Ribbon w/Interim Document. Document shows light wear/age and has been folded. Is signed and dated, "3. März 1943".

d. Royal Rumanian Order of the Star of Rumania w/Swords, Knight Grade w/o Document.

e. Royal Rumanian Order of the Cross of Rumania with Swords, Knight Grade w/Documents. Documents include the formal Rumanian document and two interim documents as well as the German interim document, all showing light age/wear.

f. Royal Rumanian Medal for the Crusade Against Communism w/Interim Document. Document shows only minor wear and is dated, "19. Juli 1943" and signed by the Unit Commander.

5. Commemorative Medal of 01 October 1938 w/Document. Medal and ribbon grade Near MINT/MINT with light age to award document dated, "9.10.1939" and signed by the unit commander.

6. Krim Shield w/Document. Bronze-colored shield grades MINT and is complete with Luftwaffe blue backing which has been removed from a uniform. Interim document shows age and is dated, "20. März 1943" and ink stamped with facsimile signature of Generalfeldmarschall von Manstein.

7. 1939 Wound Badge in Black w/Document. Badge shows wear to enamel primarily to swastika with age to document which has been folded and dated, "23. Sept. 1942" and signed by the unit commander.

8. Luftwaffe Anti-Aircraft Badge w/Document. Badge grades MINT and is maker-marked, "Bremer, Markneukirchen". Document shows light and has been folded and dated, "26. Juli 1941" and hand-signed by Generalleutnant Speidel, Commander of the Luftwaffe mission in Rumania.

9. Luftwaffe Ground Combat Badge w/Document. Badge grades Near MINT and document shows light age. Has been folded and is dated, "30. Sept. 1942" and hand-signed by Generalleutnant Steudemann, Div-Kommander (Flak). In addition to the above awards and documents, the grouping includes a MINT gilt Bulgarian Air Force Pilot's badge as well as a metal Luftwaffe breast eagle. Entire grouping is complete with a postwar black leatherette case with a storage compartment under the padded interior lid for the documents and with the lower portion of the case fitted to hold all of the awards and documents.

Superb Luftwaffe awards/document grouping recently obtained in Germany!

Also:-

During WWII, the 1st class (1941 model) was only awarded to the following foreigners:

1. Reichsmarschall Hermann Goering: 1st, 2nd and 3rd classes by Royal Decree no. 2868/14 October 1941

2. Admiral Erich Raeder: 1st, 2nd and 3rd classes by Royal Decree no. 2868/14 October 1941

3. Generalfeldmarschall Braucshitsch: 1st, 2nd and 3rd classes by Royal Decree no. 2868/14 October 1941

4. Generalfeldmarschall Wilhelm Keitel: 1st, 2nd and 3rd classes by Royal Decree no. 2868/14 October 1941

5. Generalfeldmarschall von Rundstedt: 1st class by Royal Decree no. 2550/1 September 1942 (CO Army Group West)

6. Generalfeldmarschall von Bock: 1st class by Royal Decree no. 2550/1 September 1942 (CO Army Group South)

7. Generaloberst Ewald von Kleist: 1st and 2nd classes by Royal Decree no. 3034/6 October 1942 (CO 1st Panzer Army)

Crusade Against Communism Battle Bars List:-

1. AZOV

2. BASARABIA

3. BUCOVINA

4. BUG

5. CAUCAZ

6. CRIMEA also to be found as CRIMEEA and CRIMEIA

7. CALMUCIA also to be found as KALMUCEA

8. DOBROGEA

9. DONET

10. DNJESTR (for Germans?)

11. MAREA NEAGRA also to be found as MARE NEGRU (for Germans?)

12. NIPRU

13. NISTRU

14. ODESSA also to be found as ODESSA

15. STALINGRAD

17 PRUT.

Kevin in Deva.

Hello

Few days ago, I got a romanian ribbon bar but it seemed to be homemade. The ribbon was painted, they were really well made. I believed that it was not authentic and I sent it back to the seller. Somebody can tell me if this kind of ribbon bar could be original ?

I have just to find an another exemple on eBay with the ribbons made with paint.

http://www.ebay.com/...=item5ae5baf197

Hallo Euronymous

Romanian Communist period painted ribbon bars are NOT fake, but original pieces and somewhat rare.

I have only a couple of examples in my collection if I get a few minutes tomorrow I will take a picture in natural daylight

and post here.

Kevin in Deva. :beer:

Thanks Kevin,

For the post and information, the price list is a great help. However its still unclear to me, what exactly the award, qualifying criteria was, was it based on a time serviced scale ? after all there were three medals in the group? for bravery ? or a good performance?

Could I ask, do you know how many Romanian different medal awards were given to the German forces?. I know of three, the one at the thread start, crusade against communism medal and a manufulness and loyalty 2nd Class with swords medal. Do you know to other ones ? if yes, could you post a list of them. I've included two pictures of a mixed ribbon bar and a mixed medal bar.

Ribbon Bar - Austria Medal - Czech Medal - Romanian Loyalty Award - Romanian Crusade against Communism Medal,

Medal Bar - Romanian Crusade against Communism - Ost Medal - Silver Romanian Manfulness and Loyalty Class 2 with Swords Medal. Regards

Halo Alec,

Known Royal Romanian awards presented to German and Axis Allies by Romania during WW2 start at the top with the Order of Mihai Vitezu / Michael the Brave, (its the highest award for bravery, similar to the British Victoria Cross.)

Order of the Star of Romania, in various classes, I - V

Order of the Crown of Romania, in various classes, I - V

Order of Aeronautical Virtue, in various classes,

Medal of Aeronautical Virtue.

Medal for Bravery and Loyalty (with swords), aka Manhood & Loyalty, I, II, III Class

Crusade against Communism Medal,

Cross / Medal of Faithful Service, I, II, III on the (1938 war ribbon) ,

the award criteria depending on the type of award could be for an act of bravery, military merit, the person chosen could be a German soldier deemed worthy by the Romanian's, or the awarding of the medal could be left to the Germans to pick the recipient, he would receive a Brevet / Urkunde both in German and Romanian and the details would be recorded in his pay-book.

Romanian awards were given to German Army, Airforce & Navy.

The mini ribbon bar is interesting as it shows the two Romanian awards with what appears to be the large Romanian issue ribbon, the Germans began to manufacture their own examples which were smaller in width and more suitable for their ribbon bars.

The large size bar for a German I would imagine the precedence is slightly out of line with German Regulations, in my opinion possibly a Romanian medal bar?, in which the soldier wears the awards has he receives them into his hand, if a German bar I would imagine more than just a "Frozen Flesh" medal would there at least a KVK as well if not and EK II.

Kevin in Deva. :beer:

Hallo Alec,

Very nice set you found. It appears to be the II Class, (silver) version, and yours also comes with the monogram

of King Michael* of Romania so possibly a late war award. (*Still alive and living in Romania.)

This Romanian military cross was frequently awarded to the German non.Commissioned ranks during WW2.

Usually for merit, as were German medal awards to Romanian soldiers serving alongside or in Romania.

In my honest opinion a cased version in good condition complete with original ribbon, outside of Romania,

is worth between 85 to 110 euro, but could fetch more depending on demand.

Kevin in Deva. :beer:

Greg you are absolutely right, well caught,

I never realised I had typed RPR instead of RSR

I will correct it immediately.

Thanks. :beer:

Hello

This insigna was used by officers ?

Thanks for your help.

The insignia was worn by all in the tank crew, the personnel doing the training, once they had passed the relevant examinations.

Kevin in Deva.

Question 1:- Yes it was worn by all personnel who took the examination and qualified.

Question 2:- By coincidence, you linked to my pictures on that site, where I am also a member.

These are grade badges for a Ground to Air Radar technician in a Radar detection Unit.

Kevin in Deva. :beer:

All are Romanian, congratulations on such a nice find

Top Row:-

1 & 2 are for the Romanian Crusade Against Communism Medal. / Cruciada Impotriva Comunismului1942.

3 is for the Romanian Manhood & Loyalty / Barbatie si Credincious1913.

4. is for the Cross of Faithful Service / Crucea Serviciu Credincios1938 war ribbon.

Bottom Row 1. Cross / Medal of Faithful Service / Crucea / Medalia Serviciu Credincios1906.

2 & 3 are for the Romanian Manhood & Loyalty / Barbatie si Credincious1913.

4. is a variation of the Cross of Faithful Service / Crucea Serviciu Credincios1938 war ribbon,

possibly intended for a German award as the Germans used a narrower ribbon on their awards bars.

Kevin in Deva. :speechless1:

Halo Iver

please add a picture when you get a chance of the ribbon.

Kevin in Deva :cheers:

Any Evidence of pro-German sentiment including organisations in pre Ww2 Poland?

Gents, just something that came into my mind after reading through a book called:-

"BURN AFTER READING" by LADISLAS FARGO

it was published back in the 1960's by MCFADDEN of the USA.

"At 05:00 am on September 1, 1939 the Germans crossed the border into Poland, he refers to "(Polish) Army transports operating on secret schedules were located by Luftwaffe planes and bombed at their terminals. . . .

Mobilization centers and staging stations, presumably known only to the upper echelons of the Polish High Command were found and smashed by German planes. . . . .

Munitions dumps and and oil stores to the last isolated gasoline depot, were blasted, nothing of military significance escaped. . . . . .

Among the mysteries the case of Leczyca was the most enigmatic, it was a town of only ten thousand people, in the district of Lodz, off the beaten path of armies, devoid of anything of interest to any invader. It had a garrison of only one hundred and fifty soldiers and they had been hastily sent to the front, leaving the town without a single soldier, and yet squadron after squadron appeared over the small city, until Leczya had the unhappy distinction of being the most intensely bombed area for its size in the world. it withstood 16 raids but on the 17th raid the secret munitions store concealed at the location was detonated in a cataclysmic explosion. . . . . .

He further states that other secret trains, dumps, airfields etc.. etc.. were equally disposed off by the prior planning from intelligence gleaned from "spies".

Is there any evidence to be found to substantiate a theory that pre - immediate war with Germany there were "Polish" nationals who were pro-Fascist, any Polish based pro-Fascists organisations similar as to what could be found in other European countries, like the British Union of Fascists under Mosley, The Romanian Iron Guard, etc.. etc..

I am sure immediate post occupation by the German Armed Forces there were ethnic Poles who aided the Germans in their occupation, as much as any pro-communist Poles aided the Soviet Forces annex their area of Poland.

The question itself when proffered in front of any of Polish nationality is as, a red rag to a bull, some resolutely denying that a Pole could stoop so low as to do such an act of treachery.

Any comments, facts, info & pictures welcome.

Kevin in Deva.

I cropped and highlighted your picture to see if it will give any more clues.

Kevin in Deva. :unsure:

Its really hard to say for sure, its more than likely connected to a U.S. based Romanian Society, frequented by ethnic Romanians, some of these Cultural organisations promoting the traditional values of Romania, including Folklore and music, others were religious based, and still others were for WW1 military veterans, (a military unit was raised for service in the U.S. Army in WW1 from ethnic Romanians living in the USA.)

Nice well made period piece.

Kevin in Deva.

I believe that type of fitting would be for a jacket lapel button hole rather than for a hat.

Kevin in Deva.

Hallo lambert,

It looks o.k. to me, the price @ 160 Euro seems reasonable as well,

regardless of the type, and its got a period ribbon.

Kevin in Deva. :D

Originally Post Number 13:- due to a glitch with the Forum Soft-wear I am attempting to re post it here:-

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_03_2012/post-950-0-44783100-1331058946.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_03_2012/post-950-0-84037700-1331058966.jpg

Maker Marked:- P & T (Posts & Telegraphs*)

* Brass coloured buttons were never worn by Irish Postal workers & postmen, as far as I recall they only wore silver buttons on their uniform jackets and overcoats.

Kevin in Deva. :jumping:

Hallo Dan, there appears to be a technical glitch, as its not letting me post there either

soI have contacted the moderator for that section and informed him of the problem,

I am waiting on him to get back to me.

Kevin in Deva.

What are they Kev?

Are they marked on the back at all?

They are Romanian Communist period military parachute qualification badges / Insignia

I have only located pictures of the fronts so far, they are rarely seen at the

Collectors shows here but I believe some of the earlier period were screw

back and the later period with pin-broach fastenings.

Kevin in Deva.

FROM 1977 TO 1989.

Unclassified Grade.

Kevin in Deva.

First Classification Insignia From 1953 - 1965

I Class.

Kevin in Deva.

For the period:- 1965 - 1977, I, II, III Class Grades.

The uppermost type without number is for unclassified personel.

Kevin in Deva.