What uniforms are these?

[Bernie Brule]

This picture is in my possession but I have no idea where it comes from. I suspect perhaps my wife's family. We are Canadian so I suspect that they are WW1 Canadian (or Bristish). Most interesting is the large man in the centre. Clergy perhaps?

Any assistance would be most appreciated.

Bernie

Edited January 1, 2007 by Bernie Brule

[dsgrant]

It looks like a wedding photo,hence flowers on lapels and ribbons in background,so he could be a priest.

The uniforms to me look like pre WW1 (1900) Gloucestershire regiment,so British

[Tony]

All I can add is that I think the pointed cuffs date the photo to pre 1902.

Tony

[Kev in Deva]

Hallo Bernie & Tony,

if I may add my tuppence worth, while the picture shows some type of a celebration the use of Union-Jack bunting probably indicates more of an "official" town celebration, there seems to be vehicles in the back-ground, so my speculation is part of official town parade of some type.

Official Coronation celebrations or Commemoration of a military event??

If a wedding there is not many of the fair sex in evidence

While some of the gentlemen in civil attire are sporting awards, these could be Masonic-Lodge or Town Official awards, also the partial figure seen on the back row right is I believe a boy-scout in uniform.

The "Priest" could be a person dressed in a farm-workers smock, in fact the person / child seen on his immediate right could be a related family member, as the face is very similar. I dont think he is a monk

I also think the medals worn by the soldiers are extremely large and appear to consist of bars hanging on chains ? the Cavalry looking type appears to have more normal medals, and perhaps i.d. could be made through is interesting looking hat insignia.

I also notice there is a word written on the "Doctor's" leather-bag in the foreground. but try as I might, by playing with the contrast settings, I cant get a good reading of it.

Kevin in Deva

Edited January 2, 2007 by Kev in Deva

[Bernie Brule]

Thanks for the replies.

[Jacaranda]

Official Coronation celebrations or Commemoration of a military event??

I also notice there is a word written on the "Doctor's" leather-bag in the foreground. but try as I might, by playing with the contrast settings, I cant get a good reading of it.

The fashions are earlier than WWI; it's summer (no overcoats, and some men are wearing boaters) and there are Union Jacks on display: I think Kev is spot on, and I think this is Anglo-Boer War era.

I can't read all of the writing on the bag, but I believe the last three letters are IEF. My vote is one of the hundreds of town or village parades held somewhere in the UK (maybe as dsgrant suggests, Gloucs?) to celebrate the Relief of Mafeking in May 1900.

[Graham Stewart]

Would like to have seen this photo full size, but for some reason all I get is a 1inch square. Even downloading to "my pictures" and trying to blow it up has no effect to it's size, so any ideas as to why I can't seem to view it like everyone else??

Graham.

[Kev in Deva]

Hallo Graham, is this any better for you to copy??

Kevin in Deva

[Graham Stewart]

Very nice and would agree that it's probably members who have served in a Volunteer Service Company probably taking part in celebrations at the end of the Boer War. Just can't quite make out any badges as it blurs on enlarging and the uniforms strike me as being either Yeomanry or Rifle Volunteers. The waist belts and pouch belt look an odd colour against their uniforms, because they're either in brown leather or highly polished black.

You can just make out what appears to be Austrian knots above the coloured cuffs and because there seems to be a lack of senior rank badges on those in uniform, its telling me they're probably Yeomanry, rather than members of a Volunteer Battalion. On the pouch belt and they are probably wearing "pickers" rather than the lions head boss and whistle and keep(see attached)

.

Any chance of further close ups?

Graham.

[Bernie Brule]

Thanks Graham,

I am unable to post a higher resolution picture. IE shuts down for some reason every time I try to do so...

I have figured out that the letters on the front of the doctor's bag (2nd from left seated in front) spell "RIFLES".

Wonder why I can't post another picture.

Bernie

[Bernie Brule]

Giving this a try for a larger picture:

[Graham Stewart]

Bernie,

Many thanks for rearranging the photosize and on closer examination the uniform is that of a Rifle Volunteer Regiment, and not Yeomanry as first thought, but it is of a most unusual pattern, the likes of which I haven't seen before. Certainly Volunteers as above the cuff they have an ornate "Austrian" knot, typical of Volunteer uniforms.

My impression is that it's following the pattern of the Kings Royal Rifles, but the tunics being of a slightly darker green, what we would call "bottle green" from the dark green of bottles. The facing colour I'm taking to be red, which is on both the collars and band of the peaked forage cap. The pouch belts and waist belts are in black leather and well polished too. Plus they're wearing the same type of whistle and chains as shown in my attached photo.

I can't make out any badges, which is a shame, but the lad at the rear is wearing a dark felt hat and as his uniform differs, so I take it that he may be part of the regiments band.

The photo was probably taken post 1902, as they're wearing a pointed cuff, which replaced the old "jam-pot" cuff. The peaked forage cap itself wasn't seen being worn by regulars until 1905, so it would have taken a year or two to reach a Volunteer unit.

Infact I've had an inspirational thought. Considering the Union Flags and bunting behind this group of men who do appear to be Boer War Veterans, this appears to me to be Coronation Day for George V in June 1911. So as the Territorial Force was formed in April 1908, these are actually Territorials, who would have been taking part in local celebrations.

Any ideas as to where it came from?

Graham.

PS

Apologies to Kevin in Deva, who had already recognised it as an official event.

[Bernie Brule]

Graham,

Thanks so much for the information.

A few words of explanation. Whether they are relevant, time will tell.

As with all Commonwealth countries, Canada fought in the Boer War. Although the picture was taken in Canada, the Union Jack is the only flag flying because we did not get our own flag until 1967 when the British North America Act was replaced by the Canadian Charter. Before that, we flew the Union Jack at all official ceremonies.

I have no idea where the picture comes from. I have a geneology folder that I keep bits and pieces of information that come my way about my and my wife's family. It was in there so I presume that it was given to me by a relative. Whether one of my relatives or that of my wife's remaines a mystery.

I have two great uncles that fought in WW1 but they would have been too young to fight in the Boer war. I showed it to my father who is 82 and he did not recognize the picture or any of the people in it. My wife's mother and father are both deceased so I cannot ask anyone on her side of the family.

Since it is in my possession, I am assuming that it is a Canadian unit and not British. Under that assumption, can you guess at what Canadian unit it might be?

A lesson learned here: if you come into possession of family history, jot down all pertinent information about it when you file it.

[Graham Stewart]

Bernie,

If it is a Canadian photo, rather than one taken here in the UK, then that would explain why I'm having such a hard time pinning the uniform down to a particular unit, although I would certainly date it to around 1911 and the Coronation, based on the peaked forage cap.

Sadly although I have lots of information on UK Volunteer units there seems to be a sparsity of information relating to uniforms worn by Canadian units. If it is Canadian then we'll be looking at one of your Militia units, but still a Rifles unit i.e. Winnipeg Rifles, Regina Rifles or whatever. Is there no books or unit websites over there that could possibly help?

The lad at the back wearing the felt hat, whom I take to be a member of the unit band does have a badge in it, but I really can't make it out and my thoughts kept going to similar badges worn by American Civil War units. So do hope he wasn't wearing it for a laugh.

If you do manage to find out who they are then please keep us posted.

Graham.