Orders that Ennoble the Recipient

[W McSwiggan]

Back again!

As you may have noticed ? I don?t have much to contribute other than questions that may be of some interest?

In keeping with that behavior, I solicit your inputs on what Imperial Orders actually conferred nobility ? ?von? or even my personal favorite ?Ritter von?.

I?m not sure if we ever completely determined if the admission to the Black Eagle Order entitled a commoner to a ?von?. It may have been that ? as we say in New England ? ?you can?t get theyah from heah? ? and being noble was a prerequisite for the order either by statute or because the recipient would have snagged a ?von? earlier as a normal part of the progression through the lesser orders.

That said, I would like to start a discussion identifying those orders that conferred nobility on a commoner.

The obvious is the Bavarian Military Max Joseph Order. I understand that some other Bavarian orders - in their higher grades also conferred knighthood (Ritter). Does anyone know which they were and what grades of the orders applied?

I believe that in the earlier years of the order the W?rttemburg Frederick Order conferred knighthood ? can anyone confirm? What grade?

Were there other sovereigns with such orders and if so ? can they be identified?

wem

[W McSwiggan]

OK ? didn?t seem to hit a nerve with that!

Have had a chance to search my meager library and found the following statements per Werlich:

Bavaria ? MMJO conferred knighthood for all grades & first 2 out of 4 grades of the Bavarian Crown did as well.

Hannover ? Guelphic Order - top 3 of 4 grades conferred knighthood.

Prussia ? Black Eagle before 1847 was awarded only to nobles until 1847. After that date, it conferred hereditary nobility.

Combined Saxon Duchies ? SEHO ? Grand Cross conferred knighthood.

W?rttemburg ? Frederick Order - up to 1856 conferred knighthood. After that date it was reorganized from a single class to 4 classes and knighthood was abolished.

[Guest Brian von Etzel]

In my family's case here's the progression for Franz August von Etzel.

10. 9. 1840 Oberst

22. 1. 1843 Roter Adler-Orden III. mit Schleife

25. 6. 1846 preu?. Adelsanerkennung und Erneuerung als "von Etzel"

27. 3. 1847 Generalmajor

Franz served with Bl?cher, won the EKII 1814, several battles and was wounded.

His father was Franz August O'Etzel.

Formally O'Ethel or O'Ethyl from Ireland. Left late 1600's from the Firth of Boyne.

Edited July 24, 2005 by Brian von Etzel

[W McSwiggan]

Brian,

Thanks for your information!

Pretty interesting stuff to me.

Do you have any insight as to the "why" the General was ennobled in 1846?

wem

In my family's case here's the progression for Franz August von Etzel. 

10. 9. 1840 Oberst

22. 1. 1843 Roter Adler-Orden III. mit Schleife 

25. 6. 1846 preu?. Adelsanerkennung und Erneuerung als "von Etzel"

27. 3. 1847 Generalmajor 

Franz served with Bl?cher, won the EKII 1814, several battles and was wounded.

His father was Franz August O'Etzel. 

Formally O'Ethel or O'Ethyl from Ireland.  Left late 1600's from the Firth of Boyne.

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[Guest Brian von Etzel]

Probably just the culmination of a successful career.

His mother and father were successful ship owners in Freistadt Bremen.

He married Elise Adelheid Hitzig, who was Jewish, which didn't slow him down. And, results in my grandfather, winner of the PlM had a Jewish grandmother.

[W McSwiggan]

Thanks Brian,

That is a couple of impressive ancestors you have there!

wem

[Les]

He married Elise Adelheid Hitzig, who was Jewish, which didn't slow him down.  And, results in my grandfather, winner of the PlM had a Jewish grandmother.

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This is tangental to the thread here, but raises the matter of what happened to German or Austrian Jewish WWI "war heroes" during the TR era.

Your grandfather's family information/background probably wasn't known to the Gestapo or the more zealous TR types that followed the official Numerburg edicts that defined who was or wasn't "Jewish." That solitary grandparent, if it were public information or surfaced during a family member attempting to join the "Party" would have resulted in your granfather being delcared "Jewish" regardless of whatever religion he did (or didn't) practise.

"War hero" status to the contrary, he might well have joined an Austrian Feldmarschall (Johann Georg Franz Hugo Friedl?nder) at Theresienstadt as a "guest of the government" and where he might have spent his last days. "Hero status" among those considered Jews, and political opponents gave some a slight edge, but not much of one to Rommel, despite his being a war hero in two wars.

My apologies if the post seems to veer of-topic, of what orders enobled.

Les

[Guest Brian von Etzel]

Gets sort of interesting for my grandfather. Gestapo was keenly aware of his anti-Hitler public statements and his Jewish link. But there were a few little wrinkles in the fabric that even the Gestapo had a few problems with.

G.v.Etzel was a war hero. When I visited Wiesbaden in the early sixties there were still people alive who knew him and I was truly amazed at the way we were greeted and the people who came out to see once again his daughter and pay their respects.

A man who served with G. v.Etzel was named Jakob Sprenger. He publicly stated he owed his life to my grandfather's leadership in the retreat G.v.Etzel commanded at the end of the war. My grandfather was on the Gestapo's black list and they couldn't touch him. My grandmother finally pursuaded him to "shut your mouth" because it was not only him who was about to fall on a sword but his wife AND two daughters. So he stopped talked publicly but he was still on the death list.

How can this be? 1/4 Jewish? Talking anti-Hitler talk? All this was known. He was promoted General of the Cavalry by the TR. Of course only a paper promotion but it added to his pension! And he had a great pension!

Jakob Sprenger was a fervent Nazi... The two never broke bread together after 1933. Certainly not a friend of G.v.Etzel, but, an admirer and a soldier who owed another soldier a debt, his life. And that debt was repaid.

He was the Gauleiter of Hesse-Nassau.

[W McSwiggan]

I?ve often heard that rampant anti-Semitism was a long-standing feature of the German cultural landscape. I am not sure that I ever gave this theory much credence or at least was troubled to think that the people of the German Empire were distinctly different from other European nationalities. Clearly the III Reich experience lends credibility to such speculation however ? this thread would suggest that was not the case in my estimation. Here we have examples of persons of Jewish ancestry rising to the highest levels and receiving the most coveted forms of recognition. Gives one things to ponder.