Significance of Diebitsch No. 89 BLACK Kerzenhalter?

[John1919]

Gentlemen,

I had read several threads (on several other forums) regarding the supposed significance of the Diebitsch No. 89 BLACK Kerzenhalter. I'm not sure if all the available information I've read is consistent and whether there is a consensus on this issue or not.

I have recently obtained one from a direct heir of a recipient (see attached photo in this post). The quality of the glazing on the bottom would imply to me that the piece might be late war. Accordingly, this would conflict with earlier stated opinions that the BLACK version of the Diebitsch No. 89 BLACK Kerzenhalter was simply the FIRST version of the No. 89.

Are they any other theories with regard to the significance of the BLACK versions of the No. 89? Were they awards or presentation pieces? What determined if you received a BLACk No. 89 vs. a WHITE No. 89 vs. a WHITE/GOLD No. 89?

Also, does anyone have a feeling for the market value of the black versions in mint condition?

Thank you for your opinions and comments,

John

Edited November 29, 2007 by John1919

[John1919]

Additional photo

Edited November 29, 2007 by John1919

[John1919]

One last photo

[Robin Lumsden]

John.

The black ones are certainly much rarer than the white ones, but I think they were just variations with no particular significance as regards presentation. Perhaps they were just less popular with buyers.

The black ones were meant to simulate iron, to give the impression of an ancient Germanic artifact. That is why they have a 'metallic' sheen to them.

I have one as well - picture attached. It seems blacker than yours, which looks as if it has a brownish hue.

[Robin Lumsden]

Base...........

[John1919]

Base...........

Hi Robin,

Thank you for posting the photos of your example. I think the Allach workers were also a little more careful in applying the dark glaze to your example than mine (hence my comment that mine might be a late war example)!

One of the reasons I thought the back version of the No. 89 might be a presentation piece is that black is not listed as a finish option for the No. 89 in the 1938/39 Allach catalog-only the white and white/gold finishes are listed as options.

Do you have a feel for the value of the black Allach No. 89 or are there so few examples there is not much previous sales history?

Best regards,

John

[Robin Lumsden]

Hi Robin,

Thank you for posting the photos of your example. I think the Allach workers were also a little more careful in applying the dark glaze to your example than mine (hence my comment that mine might be a late war example)!

One of the reasons I thought the back version of the No. 89 might be a presentation piece is that black is not listed as a finish option for the No. 89 in the 1938/39 Allach catalog-only the white and white/gold finishes are listed as options.

Do you have a feel for the value of the black Allach No. 89 or are there so few examples there is not much previous sales history?

Best regards,

John

Hello John.

I'd guess about ?500-?600 GBP................but that's just a reasoned guess.

Hope this helps.