odd army numbers on wwi trio

[Guest pikemedals]

hi. got a broken trio on ebay some time ago.seller stated 15564 pte.c.gibson bord r.when i got it only to find out the nunber on the victory medal was 614005 not a happy bunny.but i do love the border r so i keep it.when i got the mic for c gibson only to find the same numbers are on the mic.did not have time to get his medals rolls. has anyone seen this befor. a dealer told me that c.gibson may of rejoined the army ? any idea on this please paul

[Vaughan]

Well I have my grandads trio and His medal roll.He volunteered in 1915 in the N. Staffs., and died 1917 in the S. Staffs. He has 2 numbers on his roll.

[Guest pikemedals]

hi vaughan, did your grandad have all the same number on the trio.see i got 15564 on the star & 6-14005 on the victroy medal. i never seen this befor on a trio to the same man

[Vaughan]

The serial nos. are all the same and match His N. Staffs. no. I can only imagine He was transfered or signed up on a short enlistment and then re-enlisted around 1917. In the case of yours the star may be His original no. since it would be pre-conscription (1916) and the other a later re-enrollment.

[leigh kitchen]

Is this your MIC, Christopher Gibson, 15564 of the Border Regt, also 93189 of 24th Bn Royal Fusiliers?

The 6/14005 number is shown without unit but bears the symbol "X" indicating that it's the number to be applied to the Victory & British War Medals.

His Star should be numbered as a member of the Border Regt, his VM & BWM bear his last number allocated, but although it appears that he was in the Royal Fusiliers by the end of the war, the VM & BWM should rightfully show the regiment that he was with when he qualified for the Star.

As it's got a "6" hyphen / slash prefix I would have thought that he was in the 6th Bn of a regiment although it could have another meaning.

I can't make out what the lettering is in front of one of the blue ink "6/14005" entries, which is a pity as it could give more info if we can work out what it says.

In fact, I think it says "Corr. no." - Correct number.

The 24th Bn RF were The 24th (Service) (2nd Sportsmen) Bn Royal Fusiliers (City of London Regiment) they were raised in London by E Cunliffe-Owen on 20 Nov 1914, & became part of 99th Brigade, 33rd Infantry Division.

99th Bde moved to the 2nd Division on 25/11/15.

On 13/12/15 the 24th RF were moved to 5th Bde of the same Division, with whom they remained until the end of the war.

The TP/104 entry re. the Medal Roll for his VM & BWM show that he was still in the Royal Fusiliers when the time came to award those medals as that's the code for that regiments Medal Roll, so perhaps he was transferred from the 24th Bn RF to the 6th Bn RF (although you would expect the 6th Bn of a WWI infantry regiment to be a TF Bn, the RF had 4 Regular Bns (1st - 4th Bns) & 2 Reserve Bns (5th & 6th Bns) which were Regular Bns & fed men to the battalions overseas).

Perhaps he was wounded or ill, resulting in him joining the 6th (Reserve) Bn.

The TP prefix for the Medal Roll refernce for the 1914/5 Star indicates the relevant Records Office as London - which would fit the Royal Fusiliers & some other units, but if this man's entered France with the Border Regiment then the Border Regiment prefix would be "H", for the Records Office being at Preston, so I'm a bit confused by that one.

He entered France on 1/7/15 according to his MIC, the nearest I can find for a Border Regt bn going to France on that date is the 7th Bn, on 15/7/15, he may have been a member of a draft of reinforcements anyway.

The nearest I can work out for a RF battalion going to France on 1/7/15 is the 11th RF who went some time during July.

The 24th Bn RF went to France in November 1915 & remained there until the end of the war.

So the best I can reckon is that he was Border Regt, entering France on 1/7/15 as part of a draft of reinforcements, followed by 24th Bn RF, with whom he received a new number & then went to 6th RF where he received yet another number.

hen again, I may be wrong.......

And I don't know why he has the Records Office reference of "TP" for his Star rather than "H", as his unit's on the Star as Border Regt.

As not a lot to do with anything much, the number 614005 without a hyphen or oblique after the "6" was allocated as follows during the 1917 renumbering of the TF:

Warwickshire Royal Horse Artillery numbers 614001 - 616000

19th London Regiment 610001 - 630000

Hussars 528001 - 721000

Edited May 24, 2008 by leigh kitchen

[Guest pikemedals]

hi leigh,many thanks for you reply.in the book the border regiment at gallipoli 1915 it stated that there was a 14005 pte c.gibson in the 6bn border reg.b coy wia 14 aug 1915,sent to england 15 sep 1915.can this be the same man ?.am thiking it not. i must get his medals rolls.they may tell me in which battalions he service in. thanks paul

[leigh kitchen]

Sounds like the same man to me - 14005 with the 6 as a bn prefix.

He did'nt spend long in France, he's gone from an unknown bn of the Border Regt in France to their 6th Bn, getting a new number & then after wounding at Gallipoli gone to 24th Bn RF, the new 6th Bn number be entered on the MIC late & in a sloppy fashion?

That sounds more likely than havng gone from Border Regt to 24th Bn RF, then back to Border Regt, the blue ink 6/14005 top right on the card being a lazy way of indicating he's Border Regt with that number instead of writing Border Regt & that number under the 24th Bn RF entry?

Presumably that's how he's ended up on a London Records Office Medal Roll as a Royal Fusilier rather than Preston as a Borderer.

It's interesting that he gets a book mention simply as a wounded Other Rank.

Edited May 25, 2008 by leigh kitchen