Question on Japanese Ribbon Bars

[Tim B]

I haven't started to collect bars yet and am still learning here, so as this auction has already ended I figure it can't hurt to ask questions about ribbon bars in general and this is a good example. Here's a 9-place bar that, IMO, has ribbons out of proper sequence. However, looking at the back of the bar, it appears not to have been played with; at least not for many years.

The first two (Order of the Sacred Treasure) and (Order of the Rising Sun) I see often interchanged on both ribbon & medal bars and I have to ask, was it a case of which was awarded first, last, or some other governing decree? If the Sacred Treasure is considered the lowest form of long/meritorius service award, then why would it ever supercede an award of the Rising Sun?

The third ribbon was identified in the auction as a Showa 6-9 medal (31-34 China Incident Medal) and is placed prior to the 4th ribbon (WW1 Victory Medal); then (Showa Era Enthronement Medal) which would be circa 1928; then the (37-45 China Incident Medal).

Am I missing something here or are these out of sequence? I would have expected to see the Incident Medals either before or after the Victory Medal and Enthronement Medal, but thought the Incident Medals would have been sequentially mounted. Would the Enthronement Medal be placed after Campaign Medals?

U.S. campaign medals are mounted last issued first (or given higher precedence); was it the same for Japanese awards or was it reversed?

Last or bottom row; the (Emperor's Visit to Japan Commemorative Medal), followed by the (National Foundation Merit Medal), both Manchukuo Empire era pieces, circa 1933-1935 and last but not least the (Red Cross Membership Medal), which always seems to be last or least significant on bars.

So, I have to ask; Looking at the reverse setup, I don't see any indications that it has been reworked in any way. What does everybody think?

Tim

[Guest Rick Research]

There is also no 1914-18(20) War Medal ribbon.

I'm as "newbie" as you are-- but I've never seen a WW1 Victory Medal ribbon being worn on a WW2 period ribbon bar, either. Apparently-- like the Italians--it was considered in poor taste given their Current (ahem) allies.

Never knew Frankenstein had visited Japan....

[Paul L Murphy]

This bar is a complete fabrication. Japanese medals were worn in the order of award, sometimes the military wore all war medals in front of commemorative medals but that was not usual. They would then wear foreign medals and then Red Cross award. Foreign orders were actually worn in front of Japanese medals and Japanese orders came before everything.

The reason you will see the Sacred Treasure in front of the Rising Sun sometimes is because a higher grade of Sacred Treasure had precedence over a lower grade of Rising Sun. If both were the same grade then the Rising Sun came first. The military sometimes put the Golden Kite in front of everything even if it was a lower grade, which was actually incorrect.

This bar could have been cobbled together as a souvenier during the occupation of Japan so it would have been untouched for 50 years, but it is still an impossibility.

[Tim B]

Thanks Paul!

Yes, that would make sense that somebody who didn't know probably made it up so it "looked good" to the eye back in the day. Like Rick pointed out, there is no period service medal that would have been awarded for service in WWI, which would have been awarded if the person were entitled to the victory medal.

Cheers!

Tim

[Tim B]

Paul,

I understand you probably have this information in your book (which I still don't have btw ) and wanted to know...was it common for everyone to be a member/contributor of the Red Cross? I ask, as almost every bar I see there is at least one version of a Red Cross medal on it.

Was it like a "suggested" donation for soldiers/sailors to make?

Tim

[Paul L Murphy]

Membership of the Red Cross was, and still is, very common in Japan. The membership medal is no longer awarded.

If you want to purchase a copy of my book send me a pm.

Cheers,

Paul