LANCASHIRE FUSILIERS BERET

[Mervyn Mitton]

There was a posting under Boer War Helmets that mentioned a beret for the Lancashire Fusiliers - I thought I would show some pictures of a 1953 example.

[Mervyn Mitton]

[Mervyn Mitton]

[leigh kitchen]

Now if you'd rip that badge off so I can add it to my collection?

[Mervyn Mitton]

[Mervyn Mitton]

[Graham Stewart]

Isn't it an officers pattern beret rather than the other ranks one, with the leather headband and gold grenade & lettering to the badge?? As far as I'm aware O/Rs badges had only white worsted grenades and lettering.

[Mervyn Mitton]

Thanks,Graham . Leigh showed interest for his collection - price has just doubled - he'll 'hate you'!

I can't answer you myself , I don't have great knowledge on these modern pieces. But thanks. Mervyn

[TS Allen]

Hello,

Does anyone know when Kangol Wear was active in making berets for the British Army? They seem to have been one of the larger manufacturers of British berets during the Second World War and also into the postwar era.

Somewhere I have a picture of Monty's beret, probably at the IWM (although the one he wore at El Alamein is held in a private collection in the US, he must have had several), the interior shows this company's markings.

Horrido!

~TS

Edited May 20, 2009 by TS Allen

[Dave Alexander]

Kangol was founded in Cumbria in 1938 and was one of the largest suppliers to the Army during and after WW2. Since 2002 the Bollman Co in USA have had global sales rights and only 7 employees remain in their office in Cumbria. The berets are now manufactured in the USA and Eastern Europe (and China too I'll wager).

[leigh kitchen]

OR's berets originally had leather sweatbands, they were still being issued during the 1970's, but plastic was replacing leather by then & fabric by the end of the 70's (my first beret was a Kangol with leather band, a 1950's or 60's manufacture issued in 1972 - I was hacked off later when I was issued berets with plastic bands).

Nowadays a leather sweatband is the mark of a private purchase item, but originally they were standard issue.

Kangol wre always to me the standard manufacturer of berets, they all seemed to be Kangol in the 70's.

The dates on the berets don't necessarily mean that they were worn around that date, but the style of badge dates it to 1950's - 60's for wear, presumably into the 1970's by TA LF, Graham?

Surely the badge on this beret is very dirty white embroidery? I've never heard of a gold wire version of the badge, such a badge never existed as far as I'm aware, bearing in mind that the origins of the beret badge were in the "cut down tunic shoulder straps" helmet flashes in use circa the late 19th century.

Kangol still had a factory off Shrewsbury Avenue in Woodston, Peterborough, Cambs, around 2000, although I don't know if they were making miltary berets as oppossed to civilian wear there.

Did you check to see whereabouts the badge is placed in relation to the join at the back of the sweatband Merv?

Edited May 23, 2009 by leigh kitchen

[Mervyn Mitton]

With the join of the sweat band at 12 o'clock and running a ruler to 6 o'clock - the cockade is at approx. 4p.m. and the two air holes at 9p.m. Are you back from holiday ?

Merv.

[leigh kitchen]

Sounds like the badge is positioned where it should be for the unit, behind rather than above the left eye?

Oh yes, back in the land of cold wind & rain now - but not bad at the moment.

[Graham Stewart]

In the case of the embroidery on scarlet shoulder straps it appear only those rank & file up to the rank of Sgt wore white worsted titles whereas Sgt Instructors, Clr Sgts and Sgt Majors wore them in gold on parade dress.

So senior ranks apart in parade dress would LF Officers post 1950's have worn white worsted badges on beret's, as there doesn't seem to be a lot of information on the subject of officers beret badges during this period?

[leigh kitchen]

I've seen no reference to LF officers or senior NCOs wearing a bullion "grenade / LF" badge on the beret ............however, I've come across this photo - although it's not clear whether the badge is woven in white or bullion thread, it looks like it could be bullion, & it appears to be of a far superior "weave" then the badge on Merv's beret, which still, to me looks like discoloured white thread. I'm persuading myself now that I've seen an artists representation of a figure wearing a bullion LF patch somewhere (a Mike Chappell illustration?).

There was a bullion version of the LF grenade / scroll badge worn on the sidecap by officers & WOs, was the LF practise the same as RRF when it comes to officers & WO I's - beret with metal badge (bi-anod, gilt & silver metal cap badge or collar badge depending on period) & cap with bullion badge?

The embroidered cloth patches were the only form of badge the LF wore on the beret, the bi-metal & bi-anodised badges were'nt worn on that form of headgear.

1 LF commenced wear of the beret with hackle & cloth patch in 1947, officially authorised in 1950, the cloth badge was discarded in favour of the Fusilier Brigades anodised badge in 1958 - I take it that the TA would have continued with the LF patch?.

Allegedly originating as cut down shoulder straps, the patches were also manufactured specifically for wear on the beret.

I'm making enquiries re the use of white / bullion beret badges.

Here's the photo of the possible bullion badge, compared with the badge on Merv's beret, though for all I know the badge could be a non contemporary piece as berets are aquired for wear by old comrades, as are modern made primrose hackles & insignia.

Are you in a position to check or have someone check your berets badge Merv?

Ammendment - I've now been told that the LF did wear the metal cap badge in their berets, by an ex - LF who wore such badges (the information that the LF did'nt wear the metal cap badge in the beret came from the new Fusiliers Museum)..

Edited May 24, 2009 by leigh kitchen
I gave false info.

[Mervyn Mitton]

Leigh - if you look closely, I think you can see that it is embroidery or, woven. It is not bullion. I had an expert collector of headgear in the shop yeasterday - a member of my old Militaria Society - and he said there was no question about it being genuine and of the period. We will alwys take it back .

[leigh kitchen]

More information from the ex - LF gentleman who told me that the LF did wear metal badges with their berets & hackles, as well as cloth badges:

"I have seen 2 versions of the cloth badge circa 1950-58 .

One is the red backing with the cut out felt piece white grenade and "LF" sewn on as one piece.

The other is a red felt backing with the Grenade and "LF" embroidered using white thread, which we (going off memory only ) think may have been worn by Officers, not sure."

Also, he has shown me a photograph of a Lancashire Fusilier TA (WOII?) wearing primrose hackle with Fusilier Brigade / Royal Regiment of Fusiliers badge, taken on vesting day 1968 when the TA changed hackles from the Lancashire Fusiliers primrose to the red over white of the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers.

Many thanks for that.

Edited May 26, 2009 by leigh kitchen

[leigh kitchen]

An illustration from Mike Chappells "Field Service Head Dress 1902 to the Present Day", published by "Wessex Miltary Publishing", 1987.

It represents a NCO of the Lancashire Fusiliers in 1957, wearing the dark blue beret, introduced in 1950, replacing the khaki "GS" & shows the positioning of the badge.

The NCO wears the ribbons of the Africa GSM 1902-56 (the 1st Bn served in Kenya 1952 - 53) & the GSM 1918-62 - which campaign clasp, "post Kenya" but pre-1957 would a LF have been awarded for the GSM?

Also worn along with the white embroidered on red shoulder titles is The Lancastrian Brigade patch, the red rose of Lancaster withn a wreath of laurels on a beige or light khaki rectangle.

An attractive badge, this training brigade patch, I feel.

Edited May 26, 2009 by leigh kitchen

[leigh kitchen]

The cloth beret badge as illustrated in the May 2009 edition of "Medal News"

[leigh kitchen]

A close up of the badge on this beret:

[leigh kitchen]

You did'nt get that beret off this bloke did you Merv?

(Teddy bears in Fusilier headgear on sale at the Lancashire Fusilier Museum).

Wonder how long it'll be before we get an influx of "genuine" very small sized LF berets on the collectors market (just joking - I hope).

[fusilbrush]

My brother was called up for his national service just after the metal Fusilier Brigade badge was adopted. He did show me how the old cloth cap badge was worn.

It was worn with the rear edge of the badge in line with the front of the left ear. Mike Chapple has it got it correct.

[Mervyn Mitton]

Welcome to GMIC Fusilbrush - however, I hope you will give us a first name ? All good info. for the future. Mervyn

[fusilbrush]

Major Taylor who is still in possession of his "berryanackle" with silver bullion badge has informed me that he aquired it at Knook Camp, Warminster when they was demonstration battalion at the School of Infantry in the early fifties.

He states all the officers wore them and they came from old stock brought from India (as the battalion spent the whole of WW2 in the Far East I should imagine they was manufactured there)

Coincidentally; The officers lace of the old 20th of foot was, at one time, silver (so there's nothing new under the sun)

Bill (fusilbrush)

Edited September 13, 2011 by fusilbrush

[jf42]

A tangential question to a 1950s beret and hackle: How did the 20th Foot after 99 years as the East Devonshire Regiment become both Lancashire and Fusiliers in 1881? Did the 'Fusilier' title stem from a particular episode or campaign?