Replica Ribbon Bars

[Dieter3]

These are apparently replicas according to the seller, though I'm not sure if everything is replica, or just parts - what indicators to look for to make such a determination?

[Gunjinantiques]

The bar itself looks original, though repaired. Perhaps some of the ribbons are not original?

[Dieter3]

I wasn't totally clear on exactly what was replica - some or all of the bars, or the holder...?? I couldn't garner much from the auction ad other than "copy" which somebody confirmed for me, but didn't elaborate on what!

[Gunjinantiques]

I wasn't totally clear on exactly what was replica - some or all of the bars, or the holder...?? I couldn't garner much from the auction ad other than "copy" which somebody confirmed for me, but didn't elaborate on what!

I'm willing to bet the holder is original. Did you look at it under a black light?

[RichC]

Both ribbon bars and the metal holders are currently being produced in Japan, the former in substantial numbers from what I've heard. I'm not sure how one would determine age.

Cheers,

Rich

[Gunjinantiques]

Both ribbon bars and the metal holders are currently being produced in Japan, the former in substantial numbers from what I've heard. I'm not sure how one would determine age.

Cheers,

Rich

Interesting. Who'e making them? I'd like to pick one up just for comparison against a real one. I recently had a remake one, but it was different than this style and obviously a recent make. If you can provide a maker name or shop it'd be appreciated.

[Dieter3]

I'm willing to bet the holder is original. Did you look at it under a black light?

No, I didn't actually purchase it, I was just watching it out of curiosity. If illuminated with a black light, would one expect to see a lot of glowing due to presence of various compounds accumulated over time? Would a newer/fake not glow/not glow as much?

[Dieter3]

Both ribbon bars and the metal holders are currently being produced in Japan, the former in substantial numbers from what I've heard. I'm not sure how one would determine age.

Cheers,

Rich

Yes, please elaborate! Do you have any samples?

I'd imagine there are methods of determining age, but my guess is it wouldn't be even worth the cost and effort.

[Paul L Murphy]

Aside from everything else the order of the ribbons is totally wrong and this combination of awards would be an impossibility. WW1 Victory but no 1914-15 or 1914-19 medal; a soldier who had seen WW1 service, was still around for the Manchurian Incident but did not get the Showa Enthronement despite having both Rising Sun and Sacred Treasure !

With regard to the manufacture of fake holders, I actually once met the person who is making them. He makes them for re-enactors and bases them on real samples he has bought. I was unable to handle one of his copies but from what I have heard they are good. The only saving grace is that apparently he charges pretty much the same price as an original will cost so hopefully they will not flood the market due to the lack of arbitrage opportunities on the price.

[Dieter3]

It would be nice if the honest makers labelled them as reproductions somehow to dissuade any would be unscrupulous sellers from BS'ing a sale, or the unknowing seller/buyer from passing along a non-original as such.

[Dieter3]

How about this one? I bought this one at auction - I was somewhat suspicious of it being authentic - the ribbons just seemed too nice. But I went for it anyway, I thought it was an attractive representation and it had a Boxer ribbon on it, no idea how common these are.

The seller did claim it to be used and antique. (used is easy to claim, antique - perhaps if you don't know any better!?). In a separate auction by the same seller was a set of medals that match everything on the bar (but missing the red cross medal). Why sell separately? No idea. Anyway, no way I could afford to buy the whole medal set, though it looked pretty nice.

After receiving it, it looks fairly authentic but I'm just not sure - there is some light soiling, but almost zero wear to the ribbons, and they all look just too similar. PLUS - the swing arm thingie just looks too new, shiny, and chromey. If I had to guess, I'd say that it was perhaps an authentic holder, but maybe with a bit of doctoring and a replacement of at least some of the bars, perhaps by the original owner, to "freshen" it up. What also doesn't make sense is that this would seem to span a long career going from Boxer Rebellion to 2600th year anniversary? 40 years?? I guess that's possible. Also missing WWI ribbons, not sure if that is significant or not.

SO...I'm looking for expert opinions on this one. Sorry for the less than stellar pics., but my camera, house lighting, and skill are sub-par. Here's the bar:

Here is a pic. of the medals sold separately:

[Paul L Murphy]

That combination is plausible. Active service in 1900 and 1904-05 and then serving at home after that (or moved from the military into the political or civil service arena).

[Dieter3]

What would you wager on authenticity vs. replica??

[Paul L Murphy]

What would you wager on authenticity vs. replica??

Without documents to support the "group" I always tend to err on the side of caution. One point that would make me nervous is the lack of a Sacred Treasure (a typical long service award) so I would go for replica.

Edited December 23, 2009 by Paul L Murphy

[Dieter3]

Alas, there is no documentation to support anything. A good point on the Sacred Treasure ribbon! Thank you for confirming my original suspicion!