Award Document Cases

[Dieter3]

With regards to document cases -

I see from time to time documents with cases, the small wooden boxes or the round paperboard tubes. Am I correct in that from observation it seems that the wooden boxes are associated with earlier documents and the tubes with later documents? If this is correct, at what point was the change adopted? If that is not correct, what is the rhyme or reason? Did all documents have containment?

Seemingly less often, one sees the black lacquer ware cases. Was it the practice that the already-cased (box or tube) document be presented along with the award with these lacquer cases? It seems like a lot of resources for something already in a case, but maybe this is indeed what was done, or were these custom made by the award recipients/their families?

I guess I'm just trying to understand what came with what, when, and under which circumstances. Sorry for all the questions, but I must become as fully educated as possible. :cool:

[RichC]

I'm not sure about the tubes and wood boxes. Going by current standards (graduation diplomas, etc. are awarded in tubes after being presented open),　I think you may be right about the dating of the two (box being earlier), but who knows when this changed.

The black lacquer boxes are all privately commissioned.

Cheers, Rich

[Paul L Murphy]

As Rich said the black lacquer boxes are private purchase items. The wooden boxes pre date the card tubes but I am not sure of the changeover date. It might also have changed at different times for different grades of the order.

[Dieter3]

One of the things that got me thinking are all of these auctions I've been watching. There were a couple of items that went recently, Taisho documents, a Sacred Treasure 8th and a Rising Sun 7th (same recipient) - the Sacred Treasure was in a wooden box and the rising sun in a tube. I didn't pay attention to the actual dates of issue, but I did see the Taisho kanji on the pics. of the documents. I know this sampling is clearly insignificant to infer anything, but wondering if maybe the late teens to early 20s of the last century was where a possible change over occurred? I've only seen a handful of these at auction, but it does seem the earlier items were in boxes and later ones were tubes - but it seems once again that Taisho documents are not as common as Meiji or Showa ones so not enough to go off for me as I'm pretty new to this.

Thanks for confirming on those lacquer cases - makes total sense - that'd be a lot of investment for every award issued!!

I would certainly love to see more of this kind of information assembled into a book...... (Paul, hint, hint...... ;)) !!!!

[RichC]

One thing you must always be aware of: Dealers mix and match when it comes to boxes, too. Probably not much malice intended, though. I have been to an antique shop here where I bought a loose document and the dealer just took one of many presentation boxes off the shelves to put the document in. As for the boxes and tubes, I suppose most people think that one is as good as the other. So just because you find a Showa-era document with a box doesn't necessarily mean that they originally came together.

Cheers,

Rich

[Paul L Murphy]

One thing you must always be aware of: Dealers mix and match when it comes to boxes, too. Probably not much malice intended, though. I have been to an antique shop here where I bought a loose document and the dealer just took one of many presentation boxes off the shelves to put the document in. As for the boxes and tubes, I suppose most people think that one is as good as the other. So just because you find a Showa-era document with a box doesn't necessarily mean that they originally came together.

Cheers,

Rich

Rich has hit the nail on the head regarding the problem in trying to pin down the time frame for the changeover. Unless you get these almost from the family it is difficult to have any faith that the box was original to the group.

[Dieter3]

One thing you must always be aware of: Dealers mix and match when it comes to boxes, too. Probably not much malice intended, though. I have been to an antique shop here where I bought a loose document and the dealer just took one of many presentation boxes off the shelves to put the document in. As for the boxes and tubes, I suppose most people think that one is as good as the other. So just because you find a Showa-era document with a box doesn't necessarily mean that they originally came together.

It's unfortunate that this is the practice, and probably an all too common thing. Malice or not, it ruins the originality. I would only say a box is as good as a tube (and vice versa) IF and only if it was original to the document. Actually, I'd rather have a document with no container than a document with the wrong one! :rolleyes: