Republic of Ireland Irish Uniform pieces 1930s, need help dating

[antaine]

Hello, I'm trying to track down as much information as I can regarding my great-grandfather's participation in the Irish army.

I'd like to pin down the date for the following pieces of uniform so I can better make a request for his pension application.

He returned to Ireland for a time in the mid-thirties (I believe that's when these date from) to file for something the government was offering to veterans. His claims (and unsubstantiated family history) say he was a veteran of 1916, which may or may not be true, but it seems reasonably certain that he was involved at least from 1918-20.

After living in the US from 1920 to sometime in the 1930s, he returned with his family (he married in Nov 1922 and had children in 1923 and 25 in New York) and the intention of staying in Ireland.

I do not know precisely when this was, but he returned to the US with a copy of Knocknagow which he received from someone who owned it (and dated it) in 1934. He's in NY for the 1930 US census, began processing paperwork for US naturalization on 31 Mar 1936, applied for a Social Security number in 1937 and finished his naturalization in 1939. In the paperwork, a witness says that he has "lived continuously in the US since 1 Oct 1934," so perhaps it was the early 30s? Perhaps he returned to the US in 34 after receiving the book? Perhaps the witness lied altogether? My grandfather distinctly remembered going back there as young boy and attending school.

I do not believe he ever returned to Ireland after that, nor does it seem that he requested a medal in 1941.

Anyway, the pieces of uniform are a belt buckle and parade stick. I tried to take close pictures from as many angles as I could. The buckle weighs 1.7 oz and is chrome plated. The parade stick bears two burn marks whose purpose (my grandfather told me) was so the men could tell one stick from another (perhaps meaning that he spent some time in a barracks).

I don't know if my great-grandfather formally rejoined the Defense Forces at that time, or if he was issued a uniform for parades, or any other particulars except the anecdotes which I have related.

As much information as you can tell me would be tremendously appreciated. Thank you in advance.

http://i31.tinypic.com/25a465w.jpg

both items

http://i27.tinypic.com/359y72w.jpg

front of buckle

http://i31.tinypic.com/16glqn9.jpg

detail of front

http://i31.tinypic.com/1071bo1.jpg

more buckle

http://i32.tinypic.com/2cxexzb.jpg

back of buckle

http://i29.tinypic.com/2ugm4bc.jpg

back of buckle detail

http://i29.tinypic.com/10rjtpi.jpg

buckle side

http://i27.tinypic.com/245ac9h.jpg

chrome chip

http://i32.tinypic.com/2n71hts.jpg

front detail

http://i31.tinypic.com/1z5qflx.jpg

stick markings

http://i26.tinypic.com/5eecmb.jpg

stick tip

http://i25.tinypic.com/ddcq5i.jpg

stick topper

http://i26.tinypic.com/rgypl2.jpg

stick detail

http://i27.tinypic.com/b7xb0n.jpg

stick topper metal

http://i31.tinypic.com/2q3ubs0.jpg

more stick detail (with flash)

http://i27.tinypic.com/4rrczr.jpg

more stick metal

[gerardkenny]

The buckle seems to match the one on this page here;

http://www.irishmilitaryinsignia.com/metal/metal_index.html

click on the beltbuckle on the left and on the following page 'General', it seems to be the 2nd one down. Hope this helps.

Edited September 17, 2009 by gerardkenny

[leigh kitchen]

Some info on a belt with the same buckle in this thread:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=37619&view=&hl=&fromsearch=1

[antaine]

Some info on a belt with the same buckle in this thread:

http://gmic.co.uk/in...l=&fromsearch=1

hm...it says I don't have permission to view that forum...

[gerardkenny]

hm...it says I don't have permission to view that forum...

I think you may need to be a member for a little while longer for access as it is in the section

* Gentleman's Military Interest Club

* > Collectors Corner (Restricted Members & Above Only)

* > Members Valuation & Identification Forum

Here is a link to two of the pictures contained in the thread. I dont own the picture it was posted by a user called 'sniper' just using the same link as was used to show which I hope is ok)

Edited September 17, 2009 by gerardkenny

[antaine]

that does appear to be the very same (as does the one on the military insignia site). Is there a date for the style or other information contained in that thread that might help me determine when this was part of the uniform?

[leigh kitchen]

There is other info on the thread,Kev in Deva' posted:

I have the following back so far, with regards the buckle:-

QUOTE

There's a belt just like that in the museum in Kickham Barracks.

I remember it from my time there and we were told it was a bandsman's belt

by the person who gave it in.

Contact G.H. and he may be able to clarify that.

W.

Response from G.H.

QUOTE

Yes there's a belt like that in the museum.

If I recall correctly there's a photo of a lad wearing it also.

AFAIK it was just part of the uniform in the 40s as opposed to being just part of a bandsman's uniform.

But to be honest I'm not 100% sure.

G.H.