Seaforth Highlanders Sghian Dubh ~1880's

[Hugh]

Some time ago, I got this Sghian Dubh reportedly an officer's weapon from the 78 Highlanders (Ross Shire Buffs) in the 1880's. The battalion was later amalgamated into the Seaforth Highlanders. It appears similar to pictures from Lt Col. Angus Fairrie's Queens Own Highlanders of an officer's sghian dubh for the Seaforths. I'd be interested in any comments, especially with respect to the age of the weapon.

Edited June 5, 2010 by Hugh

[Hugh]

Here's the reverse.

[Hugh]

A look at the blade (closeup to follow). I'd also appreciate advice on what (if anything) to do about the corrosion on the blade. I have other weapons which would benefit from a cleanup if someone has a good recipe.

Thanks,

Hugh

Edited June 5, 2010 by Hugh

[Hugh]

Here's the badge. I get to wear this thing every November at our local Feast of the Haggis - a long and very enjoyable evening - and I always make sure to keep the badge above my stocking top.

[Hugh]

The setting for the cairngorm.

Edited June 5, 2010 by Hugh

[Hugh]

And the cairngorm itself.

[Hugh]

And lastly, a closer look at the blade.

Comments, please?

Hugh

[Mervyn Mitton]

Hi - Hugh. So good to have a new and interesting Scottish item. I think this is the first Skein Dhu ( British spelling) I have seen on edged weapons. I would endorse your dating - is the top gilt or, is it the photography colour ? Unfortunately, they are now forbidden in Britain under new legislation and they wear plastic ones ....

The blade is prior to stainless steel so, they do get the black marks from handling. There are a number of compounds on the market and if I were you, I would use one of those - rather than someone's 'patented' recipe. We see quite a number of these and of course, their accompanying dirks. A good military - officer's - dirk, with regt. inscriptions or, badge - can easily fetch up to £2000 ($3000). I will not give a value on yours - unless you would like one for insurance.

The handles were usually ebony - or, in some cases bog oak. Yours does not look like ebony as it is brown at the top.

Thankyou for a very unusual post. Mervyn

[leigh kitchen]

I've seen photos of very similar "Black Watch Volunteer Bn" items, I think they were described as, on a web site, I don't know if they're old or recently made, but they look new (not that I'm saying your one looks new):

Edited June 6, 2010 by leigh kitchen

[Mervyn Mitton]

Leigh - these are modern ones, made for sale to collector's. They also do Dirks - which are often described as being for bandsmen. However, the quantities made show their real market.

[leigh kitchen]

Ta, I thought they were newly made, similar in style to the one shown. Not my field, but are we thinking about 1850's for the one shown?

[Hugh]

Mervyn and Leigh, Thanks for your inputs. My spelling is from the fog of memory of my father's version.

It would be fun to know (if possible) whether this dates before or after the Cardwell reforms. Any thoughts? The fittings are gold-colored.

I have a vague recollection of another kind of wood used for the handle, or perhaps that's for the drones on a bagpipe. There is a small section of brown at the cairngorm, but most of the handle is black. Looks very much like ebony except for that section.

I'd also be interested in an old 78th officer's dirk if you ever see one. It'll probably be more than I can stand, but I'd love to have the opportunity to make that decision. The only dirk I've ever had my hands on was in the British Military Attache's office in Singapore. It was to the 79th (Camerons) and was absolutely beautiful.

Best,

Hugh

Edited June 6, 2010 by Hugh

[Mervyn Mitton]

Hi - Hugh. The dirk could well be earlier then the 1880's - really depends on the Regt. arms. Queen Victoria reigned for so long that sometimes it is only possible to do a general dating. I would say that the 'black' colour of the handle, is what we call 'ebonised' - this was a polish to darken the wood and make it look like ebony.

The cairngorm is often a good pointer - they have been using glass for years. Real cairngorms are found in streams and are rare. Your spelling sounds gaelic - would be worth checking ? Mervyn

[Hugh]

Hi - Hugh. The dirk could well be earlier then the 1880's - really depends on the Regt. arms. Queen Victoria reigned for so long that sometimes it is only possible to do a general dating. I would say that the 'black' colour of the handle, is what we call 'ebonised' - this was a polish to darken the wood and make it look like ebony.

The cairngorm is often a good pointer - they have been using glass for years. Real cairngorms are found in streams and are rare. Your spelling sounds gaelic - would be worth checking ? Mervyn

Thanks, Mervyn, My recollection is that it was presented as "from the 1880's", but who knows? I wouldn't know a good cairngorm from a plastic bottle top, but this one is nice and clear, with good color. I wonder if an American jeweler would have a clue.

Yes, I think my spelling approximates Gaelic. Glad to hear that you don't think my sghian dubh is for the birds.

Hugh

[Mervyn Mitton]

Hugh - few jewellers would deal with cairngorms - they are quite rare. With the quality of the skein dhu - which was of course, carried in the top of the long socks worn with a kilt - I think it was the right one , and worn facing outwards - I feel you can safely assume that it is real. I have also looked again at the metalwork and am fairly sure it is 9ct. gold. This is in keeping with an officer of that period. Does it feel fairly heavy around the metal ?

[Hugh]

Hugh - few jewellers would deal with cairngorms - they are quite rare. With the quality of the skein dhu - which was of course, carried in the top of the long socks worn with a kilt - I think it was the right one , and worn facing outwards - I feel you can safely assume that it is real. I have also looked again at the metalwork and am fairly sure it is 9ct. gold. This is in keeping with an officer of that period. Does it feel fairly heavy around the metal ?

Yes, a bit heavy, but perhaps it's only my imagination. The metalwork is also a little thinner than you might expect for brass or bronze. Canny Scots saving gold?

On the other hand, it does tarnish. Perhaps that's due to the low percentage of gold?

[jocktamson]

Hi Hugh, these are notoriously hard to date unless hallmarked. Ive seen quite a few of these over the years and have never been able to say for sure how old they are. The problem is the style has never really changed that much throughout the years. The name Sgian Dubh roughly translated means black knife in gaelic. The small Saint Andrew and cross is usually referred to as a "Jimmy" by many Scottish Collectors, don't ask me why, I have no idea where that comes from, its a popular icon mostly in the Highland Regiments, the Black Watch wear it as a collar badge as well as on the Sgian Dubh. so its hard to pin down your Sgian Dubh to a particular Regiment without some kind of provenance. On the up side, it does look to have quite a bit of age to it, I would agree with Mervyn its most likely late Victorian or possibly early Edwardian. A lot of Victorian "Cairngorms" in Dirks are not true Cairngorms at all, they are actually glass, backed with a foil and coloured to give the impression of being a Cairngorm, as true Cairngorms were considered semi-precious stones and would add significantly to the cost of producing a dirk or Sgian Dubh...so many officers plumped for a faux cairngorm to cut the cost. Unfortunately the only way to find this out is to remove the stone from the pommel. Either way, its still a nice little Sgian Dubh and a nice thing to have.

Edited August 3, 2010 by jocktamson

[Hugh]

Thanks for this. Jock. It's inconvenient that those Victorians didn't do more to accommodate our 21st century curiosity. I'll take a look for a hallmark.

Hugh

[jocktamson]

Indeed Hugh....most inconsiderate of them.