Shill bidding.

[Eiserne Wehr]

In recent years there has been a shift in the market when it comes to prices of photographs, mainly World war I and Freikorps themed ones have skyrocketed.

World war II themed photographs and postcards have always been very high in prize, especially Tiger, Panther or Waffen SS photographs. 

There seems to be new interest by one or a few collectors with millions on their bank account just waiting to be spend on photographs and postcards.

A few years ago a nice photograph would go for 45-70 euros as their final reached prize but more often than not way below that prize.

Nowadays it's not rare for just a single photograph of  a group of Sturmtruppen for example to fetch 175-250 euros when the auction has come to a close.

This caused me to not even follow these type of photographs when they pop up as an item i will be bidding on but i do check on the final prize it was hammered at.

What i keep seeing is that those astronomical prizes are mostly reached on auctions being listed by a certain selection of sellers.

I always found many of these listings fishy but it's hard to prove anything, or is it? Here's an example where it's obviously the case where the seller is

doctoring the auction with shill bidding to reach the highest possible prize. 

On march the 12th of 2023 this photograph of a Flammenwerfer reached a prize of €276,-.

The exact same photograph is listed by the same seller because he himself was the winner of the previous auction. 🙄

On july the 16th of 2023 the final prize this time was €91,-, which is reasonable for this type of photograph although reaching the upper most limit in my opinion.

This year on 25th of april this exact same photograph was auctioned yet again and only fetched €43,10, this time by another seller.

 

This case clearly proofs this is a real phenomenon but think of all the CDV of royalty and generals that go for €400-600,-.

Driving up the prize must be an art form because when do you stop with the shill bidding and let the potential buyer(s) fight it out?

Although it is not allowed on Ebay, i will wager this happens on a daily basis.

Since day one(i have been bidding on Ebay for almost twenty years now) i have always bid on an item with a final prize in mind and only rarely

went a little bit further and upped my highest bid.

 

[Bernd_W]

IMO most eBay auctions are decided in the final seconds, because a lot of people use sniper tools. Back then forbade, now at least for German ebay legal. 

When the seller relists a item, then its a shill bidding for sure. But shill bidding in the last seconds dos not work really well, you have to bid a recent time before the end, so your "victim" can also do again. Also relisting is IMO quiet seldom.

One guy from Germany sold his Freikorps collection recently, pictures papers and also awards and so on. A lot of insane prices, I can show you more cool stuff at dealer for half of the price when if comes to some examples, but also some justified prices for SSOS or West army stuff. IMO all real prices, only one Loewenfeld Militärpass was relisted, but by another person. Maybe a scalper or a undecided collector who bought it.

IMO most prices for world war I and Freikorps pictures are real. Might be a mix out of new collectors with too much Money, and (foreign) dealers. The number of dealers has risen in the last few years, some even have a paid update, so they always need new stuff to justify this. And then there are the dealer from foreign countries IMO also buying at German eBay. Because there might be a lot of war booty Pickelhauben in the US, but not much world war I and Freikorps pictures, but also these collectors there need some offers. I even saw Weitze buying at eBay. What IMO also drive the prices up, is when the seller is offering international shipping. When you buy at German eBay as a non German or EU citizen, most sellers wont bother with shipping to your country, so this drives the prices for these auctions up.

[Eiserne Wehr]

Shill bidding is when the seller or a "friend" places bids on an auction to drive up the price, this is not allowed on Ebay.

I have a pretty good idea what the market prices are for WWI or Freikorps themed photographs and postcards, before the year 2019 it was possible to score amazing photographs for under €10,-, shipping costs included! This has become a rarity nowadays. This is not my complaint, i just accept it for what it is but it's highly suspicious that similar themed photographs sell for under €75.- by private or small professional sellers and €200+ by a small selection of professional sellers. I have seen many photographs being sold for a normal price and then shortly afterwards being relisted by the new buyer which often happens to be one of the same small selection of professional sellers.

 

[Bernd_W]

5 minutes ago, Eiserne Wehr said:

Shill bidding is when the seller or a "friend" places bids on an auction to drive up the price, this is not allowed on Ebay.

I know.

5 minutes ago, Eiserne Wehr said:

I have a pretty good idea what the market prices are for WWI or Freikorps themed photographs and postcards, before the year 2019 it was possible to score amazing photographs for under €10,-, shipping costs included!

I know.

8 minutes ago, Eiserne Wehr said:

I have seen many photographs being sold for a normal price and then shortly afterwards being relisted by the new buyer which often happens to be one of the same small selection of professional sellers.

I looked up the names in the screenshots above, have bought or bid from them years ago, so IMO not much Freikorps offers from these people recently. They are IMO "Haushaltsauflöser", but could be a new shill bidding tactic done by a few.

They are companies so they are eligible for input tax deduction if they invoice each others.

 

IMO prices have also just risen because of various reasons I pointed out above.

The picture you showed above is clearly the same, so what I describe now is not true for this offers, but for other offers with two prints of the same picture sold in a few weeks or month. So two buyers bid on the first offer (200 and 199€), one get it (200€), so one buyer stays. On the second offer he bid again 199€, but now he have to compete only with the third buyer who bid 100€, so the second buyer get it for 101€.

[Eiserne Wehr]

Correct, it's hilarious to see a duplicate photograph being sold within a year or two and the second one offered is sold for peanuts. The loser of the first auction, winning the duplicate, must be jumping for joy and can't believe his luck. Seeing a photograph for the first time offered gives an amazing feeling and makes you wonder if you'll ever see something similar pop up again. I had a few where i needed to wait 15 years for it to show up and i happen to be able to purchase it. The mystery of if the glass plate or how many photographs survived over the past 100+ years makes it thrilling in my opinion.