prussian general Imperial German Sates & Prussian General A. Goetze War Medal Group + Hermann Kellner Identified! ...but is he NSDAP?

[prestonhudman]

This is Part 1:

 

This is my official post regarding my most recent discoveries. Please point out when I'm wrong and try to help find the truth. This is going to be a long post. A lot of it is baseless or just a theory but there is circumstantial evidence abound which entices me to keep digging. First let me show you the medals for A. Goetze... 

 

 

 

from left to right top to bottom... order of black eagle I think (or is it red eagle?) (looks black), 1870 iron cross mini with a button/ribbon, 1914 iron cross ring, 1870-71 combatant medal with 5 bars, Langensalza Medal named to A. Goetze, Centenar Medal FULL SIZE, mini 1870 iron cross again, mini red eagle, mini order of crown, mini 25 year long service, mini combatant medal, mini Langensalza medal, and mini centenar medal and a Kaiser comers 1899 ribbon, missing: French legion of honor full size, Brandenburg-Prussia Bronze medal by J. and L. Wiener 1865 for the International Flora Exhibition in Cologne Friedrich Wilhelm Bronze medallion, 1867 von Bremmer Hannover Bronze medallion 1878 (Bremmer) prize medal outstanding excellence in the general trade exhibition, Germany Bismarck 70 Anniversary 1815-1885 Copper Medal, Hannover commemoration medal Ernst-august memorial 1861 medal, 

 

(missing: full size iron cross with 25 year leaf) (missing: Red eagle full size) (missing: Order of crown full size) (missing: 25 year long service full size) (missing: mini French legion of honor?)

 

correct me if I'm wrong but in order for it to be complete I should ask the owner's consignment team if they have any of the medals that I listed as "missing?" I would have 1 mini for each full sized version. I'm not sure if that is even possible but I could try. I'm wondering what class of medal the full sized red eagle and order of the crown should be and whether or not they should have swords.

 

Next, I wonder if they are all for the same person or if the older ones from the mid 1850's to 1890's are for Goetze, and the newer ones from 1895 to 1914 and beyond are from Hermann Kellner perhaps?  I notice that the ribbons and wear pattern looks to me like they were all word at the same time by the same individual. With so many of the mini's matching the full sized it stems to reason that these all belonged to one guy maybe two but they aren't random items from random people. 

 

A lot more was included that leads me to believe the owner is Goetze and that he started out in the Hanover army because of the abundance of Hanover medals and because his 25 years of service corresponds to that of a generals which also aligns with Hanover being the beginning of his career. 

 

Also, AI tells me that his shoulder boards are that of a generals or maybe colonel, but I thinks it's none other than Major General Friedrich Adolf von Goetze however it could also be someone named August Goetze who was born in Hannover around 1833 and who had a wife named Elizabeth and daughter Lena (I think) but unless I can link Lena to being Marguerite Goetze-Kellner it doesn't help. I'm having trouble figuring out who gave the group to Marguerite. Marguerite has been identified as well as her husband Herman Kellner which I will explain next but the generation of people before them is seemingly lost to history. It starts with them entering America but thing is most these items came from way before then even before Hermann (born 1873) and Margarete(born 1877) were born. So it makes since that she got them from her father (the source) or a relative who got them from the source maybe? I want to know how many people are between the source of the medals (Goetze) and Marguerite.

 

 

I also believe the saber is consistent with a general and it even says "Hannover" on it so Goetze must be closely tied to Hannover. 

 

 

 

 

 

No offense it was just a warm gesture from the heart where I throw it at you.. One sword for dad and one for son or in this case daughter. I will discuss the 4th sword with the "VIIII" carved into the handle later on.

 

 

here is the guy I found that best matched A. Goetze just sayin...

 

 

 

and here is what i have for the Kellners who I've already identified and will explain next. But here is some solid info...

 

 

long story short the Kellner's came here in like 1917 or 1919 and it was just Margarete, Hermann, and daughter Doretha. Herman Kellner is a known engineer who worked for Bausch & Lomb and it was them who gave him a job and paid for him to come to America. supposedly after Kellner had learned stuff about optics from Carl Zeiss who was using Jews for forced labor at the time. So Hermann taught B&L's guy to match the Germans in quality optics.... article about Hermann Kellner

 

There are personal letters between Kellner and Zeiss so it's possible to make that connection especially if someone can translate German. Aside from building optics Hermann was an astrologist and it appears to me that he was into the occult and he practiced sorcery, alchemy etc. I will share with you some of the documents I've been shown. I will post a comment that shows you the pictures but after this the goal is to 1. tie Herman to the NSDAP, 2. and to tie Margarete to A. Goetze, 3. and to determine what the "A" stands for (I'm pretty sure it's Adolf or August) 4. translate letters to learn about Zeiss. 5. Translate the astrology instructions. 6. try to explain why Hermann (i think) carved the number 9 into the sword handle along with 9 dots. Perhaps he was the 9th member of the NSDAP. More on that still to come in part 2. 

 

 

 

Edited 4 hours ago by prestonhudman

[prestonhudman]

Please help me translate these because this could crack the case wide open...

 



 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are a few others that are about art, battleships, astrology, and I can show them upon request. This is all I could fit for now. I'm going to prepare the rest of what I've got for a part 2 of this saga. Stay tuned...

 

Also, Herman Kellner might be related to Hermann Kellner II but I have no clue as to who his parents were etc. I think I found their names assuming it's the correct Hermann but idk. IMO there could be a Hermann Goetze, Hermann Kellner, Gustav Adolf Hermann Kellner, Adolf Goetze, Adolf von Goetze, William goetze, Wilhelm Goetze, Adolpho Goetze... and for all I know they are all the same person. I feel like the shoulder boards and the other stuff should be enough to identify him because how many generals were their? 

 

I plan to buy some of his astrology documents as well as some letters and maybe the pictures if he will sell them for a reasonable price. Since I'm the one who made dollar signs light up in his eyes by sharing my investigation with him, he's been expecting more and more to go to the moon. It appears to me that the military's portion was sold to me while they retained the artwork and optics stuff. Not only are the consignment people holding back items but Russel Schwartz (the only living heir and the person who sold me these items) he's also holding stuff back still. Margarite passed it down to her daughter Dorethea and Dorethea passed it down to her son Russel who is now 84 years old with nobody else to pass it on to. I think he should recognize my efforts and just send the rest of his families treasure's to me since it is I who will be carrying their legacy into the future and if nobody buys it after some years I'll just merge it with my own heirlooms. I'll just change my name to make it make sense. lol. jk. I AM THE NUMBER 9 THOUGH REMEMBER?

 

       

Edited 3 hours ago by prestonhudman