Romania Modified Romanian Royal awards being sold as ORIGINAL.

[Kev in Deva]

[attachmentid=54866]Hallo Gentlemen

I have decided to create this post to warn Club members of this Romanian seller on Ebay, recently he has put Items up for sale that are not as they seem. Thankfully not all sellers are so bad here, but this guy is not helping their reputation.

The seller is: s-chicot( 241) out of Bucharest. And so far with a 100% sales record.

Firstly: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=180029628868

The item was originaly a Romanian Order of the Star, Knight, Military, however if we look closely at the rays on the Cross, particularly at the mid position of the ray left and right upper you can see where the swords have been cut off the item, and on the lower area can be made out the motif which formed part of the hand guard of the swords (the handles having been cropped as well.

I will post cropped pictures here, as soon they will be gone off the ebay page. His description is here, I have highlighted some of his words in blue:

Welcome everybody to my all auctions!

***Artikelbezeichnung***

Orden vom Stern Rum?niens?Ritter?I. Modell (1877-1932)?Zivil-Abteilung

Original Band!!!

Selten!!!

***Beschreibung*** Der Orden wurde im Jahre 1864 ohne besondere nachweisbare Formalit?ten geschaffen.

***Item's Title*** Order of the Star of Romania?Knight?Peace , 1st. model.

***Item's Description*** Original Ribbon!! Rare!!!!

Return policy:

~The authenticity of all my pieces is fully guaranteed;

~If any item purchased is not as described you may return it unaltered within 10 days* of purchase for a full refund ;

~If you have any doubts or questions, please contact me before you bid on item.

Good luck bidding and, thank you for your time!

* for a US buyer, he would have no chance to return it under this time limit as post to the US from Romania can take over 10 to 12 days!!!!

Kevin in Deva.

Edited September 27, 2006 by Kev in Deva

[Kev in Deva]

Hallo Gentlemen

Another modified Romanian Award.

This seller is: 2*baron( 2089) from the USA

See: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=110034380047

The item was originaly a Romanian Order of the Crown, Officer, Military, however if we look closely at the Cross its been cropped to look like a civil model. The area between the inverted letter C's (For Carol) are filled in with the remains of the sword blade, the tips have been removed, and the handles removed, this area in original pieces is open.

Description: WW1 ROMANIAN MEDAL ORDER CROWN OFFICER GRADE GERMAN*

FROM AN ESTATE AUCTION

THIS IS A VERY GOOD LOOKING MEDAL PRE WW1

RED AND WHITE ENAMEL WITH GILDING.

HEAVY PIECE FOR ITS SIZE

MULTIPIECE CONSTRUCTION

OLD WORLD QUALITY

THERE ARE A COUPLE OF SMALL CHIPS TO THE ENAMEL BUT MINOR.

IT IS IN VERY GOOD CONDITION.

*Obviously the seller dosent know Romania were fighting the Germans in WW1!

I will post cropped pictures here, as soon they will be gone off the ebay page.

Kevin in Deva.

PS: Sorry about the small images but the system wont allow me to upload modified / cropped pictures for some reason!! MEGA

Edited September 27, 2006 by Kev in Deva

[Carol I]

Hallo Gentlemen

I have decided to create this post to warn Club members of this Romanian seller on Ebay, recently he has put Items up for sale that are not as they seem. Thankfully not all sellers are so bad here, but this guy is not helping their reputation.

The seller is: s-chicot( 241) out of Bucharest. And so far with a 100% sales record.

Firstly: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=180029628868

The item was originaly a Romanian Order of the Star, Knight, Military, however if we look closely at the rays on the Cross, particularly at the mid position of the ray left and right upper you can see where the swords have been cut off the item, and on the lower area can be made out the motif which formed part of the hand guard of the swords (the handles having been cropped as well.

There are many such badges for which it appears that the ends of the swords were cut off, so I would venture to say that they were originally produced this way. Please see below some examples.

[Carol I]

[Carol I]

[Kev in Deva]

Hallo Carol I,

can you explain the reason why modified designs like these would have been used?

I mean it must be very uncommon for conversions to be made, what reason could you suggest for it??

Or is it a basic design flaw that was never caught at the production level??

I always imagined Royal Orders would be subject to a rigerous inspection, after being made and before given approval to be issued??

Do you also know of any official information on this?

Many thanks, Kevin in Deva

Edited November 15, 2006 by Kev in Deva

[Carol I]

can you explain the reason why modified designs like these would have been used?

I mean it must be very uncommon for conversions to be made, what reason could you suggest for it??

I think these are orders awarded after WWI, when wartime badges (crossed swords between the arms) had high priority. I presume it was cheaper to produce all the orders with the same template and then chop off the extra bits for the peacetime awards.

Do you also know of any official information on this?

Nothing of the sort, unfortunately.

[Kev in Deva]

I think these are orders awarded after WWI, when wartime badges (crossed swords between the arms) had high priority. I presume it was cheaper to produce all the orders with the same template and then chop off the extra bits for the peacetime awards.

Nothing of the sort, unfortunately.

Hallo Carol I ,

thanks for the quick reply, I find it strange that there was not a parallel fabrication of both types, Civil & Military, after all Peace-time versions would have been the norm, until WW1 started, also the fact that the Romanian Armed Forces did not engage in WW1 till 1916.

Even in war-time it would presumably be surmised there would be awards for Civil types to civilians and political types etc..etc..

I wonder if an awardee felt slighted to get a chopped up award

Do you know is it documented how and what the Decree procedure was for the contracts to be awarded, when and how many awards were required at any given time? or has this information been lost with time??

Romanian Order's & Decoration award Statutes seem to be somewhat of a very big "Black-hole".

Kevin in Deva.

[Carol I]

I only advanced a hypothesis to explain the existence of the "chopped" badges. It remains to be seen if it will be confirmed by some official information on the manufacturing procedures.