What are these

[dante]

Welcome your thoughts on this lot, thanks, Paul

[dante]

Welcome your thoughts on this lot, thanks, Paul

2

[Riley1965]

Hello Paul,

Please excuse my ignorance, but what is that Orderl?

Doc

Edited November 1, 2008 by Riley1965

[dante]

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[dante]

Riley.....no idea

[Guest Rick Research]

:Cat-Scratch: Oh ho!

Work for an EPSON scanner here-- that, and a jeweller!

The first item SHOULD be a 2nd model (on right in scan below compared to a 1st model updated) Prussian Frauenverdienstkreuz-- I will find the BIG thread on those and insert the link here:

for no SANE "reason" whatssoever that I can tell, THAT thread and THAT thread alone out of 35,000 does NOT come up on any entry of "Frauenverdienst" in "Search" so I will have to FIND it in the back pages by going back through each page....

BUT the crown you have shown is IMPERIAL and NOT Royal as compared with the above 2 of this VERY arre feminine beauty. From what I can see in your Tragically Non-Epson Image the actual badge/enamelling, etc all look perfect but oh NOT that crown. Closeups, reverse side, pin arrangement to the ribbon etc etc as best as Non-Epson can manage.

The lower is typical of Royal souvenirs. Not sure what/whose cipher that is supposed to be (And "H" ?) but you most urgently need to have the stones checked for paste versus Real Stuff. Should be marked for gold or silver gilt metal content-- and the hallmarks may help with origin.

Plaque-thingee is an enigma. He and she never had a 60th anniversary, and he was 60 in... 1919! I assume for somebody else's 6oth: reverse, please.

[dante]

Oh ho!

Work for an EPSON scanner here-- that, and a jeweller!

The first item SHOULD be a Prussian Frauenverdienstkreuz-- I will find the BIG thread on those and insert the link here:

BUT the crown you have shown is IMPERIAL and NOT Royal. From what I can see in your Tragically Non-Epson Image the actual badge/enamelling, etc all look perefct but oh NOT that crown. Closeups, reverse side, pin arrangement to the ribbon etc etc as best as Non-Epson can manage.

The lower is typical of Royal souvenirs. Not sure what/whose cipher that is supposed to be (And "H" ?) but you most urgently need to have the stones checked for paste versus Real Stuff. Should be marked for gold or silver gilt metal content-- and the hallmarks may help with origin.

Plaque-thingee is an enigma. He and she never had a 60th anniversary, and he was 60 in... 1919! I assume for somebody else's 6oth: reverse, please.

Cheers Rick.....

[dante]

Cheers Rick.....

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[dante]

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[Guest Rick Research]

Curiouser and curiouser. The PIN reverse is for a 1st Model-- note the much bigger "donut hole" opening on the 1st without the "inner porthole rim" behind the cross visible from the obverse of a 2nd Model-- while that is DEFINITELY a 2nd Model reverse:

The 1st Model was made as a brooch, and the one shown here is a hybrid, updated with 2nd Model ribbon suspension. Your ribbon and pin are spot on.

The pin back and Imperial crown, however, do not go with a 2nd Model.

Is it a fake... or an old Roayl Lady In waiting's jeweller made custom wuzzit? More than I can tell you, having never had more than these one of each above in my sweaty paws.

Still searching for that Big Thread... back end of the first week of July this year was the last posting from dates on my scans.

The plaque is for some happy couple's 60th wedding anniversary from Willy & Augusta Viktoria. You've got a Court lady's stuff, here.

[Guest Rick Research]

HA! FOUND the Wretchedly Invisible thing:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=27665&hl=

Human 1: Computomasheen zeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeero.

Now, looking at these, I am convinced that YOUR hybrid is NOT fake:

The crown is incorrect BUT

the pin fixture is EXACTLY the same as the 1st Model hybrid (turned up locally out of vet bringback kit, untouched by grubby collector paws ever) whcih solidifies my opinion that the 1st model hybrid was professional jeweller altered back then--

as was yours.

Adding to that-- you will observe a little "rivet" between 2 and 3 o'clock polished off on yours. That was--on the 1st Model hybrid shown-- because it DETACHES at the bendy bit there, to be worn as a pinback brooch (original model) OR as a ribboned award (2nd model).

Yours is a second model, which was made ONLY as a ribboned award ...

but it seems that at some point your lady decided SHE liked wearing it either way... and had it "retro-fitted." I am guessing this was AFTER the war, when the Old Dear could get away with swapping out crowns to indicate-- to herself anyway-- that she had been an IMPERIAL Chamber-Lady and not (sniff) simply a Royal one...

by the same exact jeweller. At some secondary point, the detachable was RE-altered to as it is now.

She had a long long life indeed

OH FOR A N-A-M-E!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The collecting gods have smiled upon you this happy day! :jumping: