Spasm

AlecH

I know I'm a bit late but I've just seen this. Assuming I can read the numbers - its a M7/116 (albeit a bit futher up the blade than I've seen before) - Lovely NSKK by Franz Frenzel. Don't see many of these that were made in the Czech rep.

Nice one

Spaz

Well, it seems as though I wasn't completely correct. I went to have a nose round on the webby search and found that the FN FAL has had 3 types of bayonet - Type A, B and C. The first, Type A, was innovative due to having springs in the butt to give a sort of recoiless action, Type B, which looks like the one you have and supposedly quite rare with the thinner prongs for the slender flash suppressor, Type C, produced due to the others being difficult to manufacture and expensive, which is the same as the R1 bayonet picture I loaded.

http://worldbayonets...l_bayonets.html

So, any old end up, your bayonet and my bayonet probably could've fitted both the FN FAL and the R1. Depending on the flash suppressor. Sorry, based my comments on the cheap one I was issued with.

Always learning.

Spaz

R1 bayonet

Mervyn

The bayonet you have is from an FN FAL not an R1. The U and M stamp is for Union of SA and Military, I've seen these with SAP - South African Police - stamped as well.

Yours has been stamped over deliberately with loads of "Zeds" to remove the serial number and the UM - something done when they were "passed on" I believe.

R1 bayonets have round butts and are similarly stamped M inside a U with a serial number, you can sometimes find ARMSCOR when manufactured in SA. The R4, which came after my time, is a 5.56mm compared to the 7.62mm shoot through walls R1.

Cheers

Spaz

Still haven't found any real evidence other than reading Ralf's book again. (As it's translated from German the sentences read a bit funny in some places - using babelfish on the original German is no help either). But he says that the 15 is the Brigade number.

Does anybody know where Brigade 15 were based? I'm sure there were a few places as there were getting on for 4 million SA members at its height.

Wonderful collection and good display. Is this in your house?

And, it may be the light but does the label say "WARPIORS"?

Thanks fop shaping

Gents

I need to read all this again once the first one has settled in. Just fascinating, I'll be back after going to have a lay down.

Spaz

Often tempted with getting a few of these myself as they are just fantastic "in real life" and when held. It's hard enough for me to find the room for gear on the wall let alone trying to find the space to keep and display helmets. Where do you keep them and how do you display?

Think I'm looking for a reason

Spaz

Oh, and by the way, I have no problem with the supplier of the ring - it was very cheap and I wanted to have it in hand as it looked to be a good copy. If I had had a problem, I would have received a full refund which I'm sure the dealer would have been happy to supply once advised of his error in his description. It was only his description that was out, not the price.

If held along with a real one it's fairly noticeable which one is correct. But just looking at pictures on some auction or web site could mislead some buyers so this may aid if you fall under the spell to buy one on impulse.

Mind you, a couple of grand on impulse is a steep impulse. But I have been known to fall for the odd motorcycle or two in my time :whistle:

And the final one of the death's head. So, any old end up, whats the give away?

And the SS officer's name - A. Muller (with an umlaut) quite a common German name. You'd be surprised that there isnt that many SS officers with that name at that time. I hope its the one on the Eastern Front and not that one in the Polish concentration camp.

the date of 08.10.42 is inscribed ("Is that date the correct date?" I hear you ask - I believe in the early part of the reich these were only given out on soltices but later ones were inscribed with other dates) along with H. Himmler

Now focusing on the inscription on the inside of the ring

All the correct runes are present and its been well worn

You can just make out the join in the band in the fuzzy background

The ring looks a bit yellow due to the lighting, its a very bright silver

Gents and Gentesses

Have a look at this and you can play the investigation game. I bought this a couple of months ago from a 'reputable' uk dealer advertised as an original. I knew there was no way it was an original because of the price but it's a pretty good copy. The pictures were taken just now under a normal room light (dark here in Londinium) so they have no depth but I have focused in on the details quite well. The rings looks to be multi part with a join in the band behind the skull and the skull looks to be a separate part (as one would expect in an original). There are no 'bubbles' one sees with cast copies and in the hand it feels and looks really good.

There is, however, one mistake which is plain to see. Have a look and see if you can tell me what's wrong.

Yep, still looks like a good one to me.

Assuming you now have it, how tempting to try to find it's original owner. Although I believe there is no full list, there are some places worth having a look. Rick research, a member here I believe, has the full list of party numbers for the Gau (district) of Hessen-Nassau - ask him nicely and he will probably look up the number for you. The SS Dienstlaterliste also would contain party numbers which can be accessed by the people who have a copy (fairly easy to find on t'tinternet). Worldwarmilitaria have a forum dedicated to the Golden party badge so may be worth checking there against their known list with members.

I expect the Gents here would help too.

Let us know if you get anywhere

Gents

The detail of the stamped numbers on the August Bickel. They are exactly as shown in Ralf Siegert's - The Service Daggers of the SA and the NSKK - book on page 73, he calls it a "stamped service number". But he doesn't detail what the numbers signify only that the number belongs to the dagger and does not identify the person. However the "15" must relate to a Brigade or Sturm as the dagger in his book is also stamped 15, is Gruppe (Gau) marked Fr and is an August Bickel. He also states that only weapon masters had access to number stamps which is why most numbered daggers are engraved with any personalised numbering.

So, I therefore think I can say that this particular Brigade/Sturm/etc stamped their daggers before or at issue to the individual. Any ideas which one? I'll let you know if I find anything.

A transition dagger from F.W. Holler / RZM M7/33 with hanger marked 1941 which is some time after these daggers but could've been replaced at the time I suppose. Still great coloured handle with alluminium eagle and plated crossguards (not as well made as the earlier daggers)

The inscription side

A full Rohm with a great coloured handle

You can perhaps just make out the stamped number on the lower cross guard - 15/22077

Chaps and Chapesses,

Thought I'd let you have a look at these. Check out the colours of the handles.

The August Bickel is numbered and blowed if I can figure what the numbering means. I've looked up Brigade 15 who seem to have been based in Itzehoe which is nowhere near the Gruppe (Gau) mark Fr for Franken. maybe its the Standarte or Sturm number. Anyone have any ideas?

Mervyn

All the stuff is from 32 Btn SADF (disbanded in '93), Camo Beret (with 1st type balkie bar). NCO's belt. Service Book. Pro Patria medal. Metal insignia for stepping out and a cloth one that I should really stitch onto something one day.

Cheers - Spaz