hipnos

The Booklet with the name in Cyrilic and the group

Thanks

miguel

Two more seals

Hey Rick, My personal Hero!!!.

I?ve came across a little "documented" group of USSR awards rhat came from Lituania: The name of the medals Owner is a non Great rusian name (Lituanian as I can Think): Peeter J?rv, is a non spacaila interest group with some Veteran of army forces comm. med ranging from 50 to 70 years and of com. med of the GPW from 20 to 40 years, a 100 th lenin birth meal and 2 odd labor awards fron 1976 and 1980. And a GPW 2c Orders with document dated 11/03/1985 and nr.: 5807334 (could this be possible so high number and so very late date???)

I submit you some seals as If you can Identified the procedence.

Thanks

Hace a Nice Day

Thanks

Miguel

Miguel thanks for your interesting pictures and information. You really have very nice buckles. The bodygard buckle of Franco will be the most rare I think.

Cheers,

Benten

Yes , They are re not in my field of interest, and are some samples at a commercial site...

The Franco?s boduguard buckle can be yours for 200?, if you want it at a commercial site named: www.todocomercio.com I?m afraid that this is all in Spanish language

Regards

Miguel

smooth finish

Franco?s Bodyguard (Gilded with three stars...) Gala falange?s Chiefs

Smooth finish

I was saying that the finish I?m always seen is in silver. or silvered metal, sometimes , but rarer are gilded.

I think the first issues are in smooth finish not "peebled" as this one... But I don?t know if this is enough for dating the item. I?m in my Job and I don?t have more sources to consult.

Do you can find a lot of models with a price between 15 USD and 300 USD, in specialised shops...(there are plenty of them in the late 70?s when the regime changed to Parlamentarydemocracy).

Regards

Miguel

This is my first one. The material is chromed (?) copper. What period is this buckle part?

Is this a rare item and what could be the value?

Thanks in advance.

Cheers,

Benten

IMHO It seems to me as pefectly possible real Falange party Buckle, ranging from 1936-27 to late 1960?s, so many differente finishes are possibles, but ever is in silver/ed.

I would prefer see the reverse if possible

Thanks

Miguel

Miguel,

G-5 torpedo boats were 24m long

Back to the drawing board

Marc

Too much haste!!!!

Thanks

Miguel

[ quote name='Lapa' date='Apr 5 2008, 10:39 ' post='254703']

Christian,

Interesting line of thinking...

Marc

Yup-- you can tell from the height where the clips were sewn (so that the bottoms of the awards were all straight in line with each other) that it was indeed an Albert Knight 1st Xand Knight 2nd X-- which the Saxons allowed.

That sure looks like a Red Eagle Order ribbon on the end, but I cannot imagine how that would have been POSSIBLE. That was only given to lucky Captains and up-- while an Albert Knight 2nd was for Lieutenants. So maybe it was actually a Prussian General Decoration in Silver medal. This is the bar of a Saxon officer first decorated during the war as an Oberleutnant, who was promoted to Hauptmann or Rittmeister during the war, so a Red Eagle ORDER on peacetime ribbon is out of the question for him.

All that have sense. thanks Rick!!

I was think that the prussian service to the state silver medal was only to prussians subjects...

Miguel

Gentlemen: I just came across a Sachsen Bar, But Without the medals/orders one time holded. I?ll Be very Happy If I can (some day) fill -correctly- the void and got a complet and wonderful Sachsen Spange.

I ask you about your hints of what medals-orders will fit in the empty hooks...

My First Bid is for a pair a Albert Orders, a EK2 and a REO (Class??) cross. So far from the precedence of ribbons is near sure that the bar is definetely Saxon...?

Do you can help me on this matter (Hey Rick!)???

Thanks to all of you.

Miguel

PS/ Somebody can sell/swap the lost Albert? orders...???. I have already a EK2 and a REO 3th, (or is 4th?) class (pebbled arms). in lost and single mounts respectively.

I send a pic F&R

You're welcome Miguel, but I have two small notes to your latest post.

1. From 1862 the state was no longer known officially as 'Romanian (or Danubian) Principalities', but as 'Romania'.

2. There were no "Romanian volunteers fighting along the Russian army", but the Romanian Army called upon rather desperately by the Russian army stuck at Pleven with great human losses. The National Military Museum has on display the telegram sent by Grand Duke Nikolai of Russia to Prince Carol I of Romania which reads:

Thanks a lot. I?ve writing without any source before me, and I?ve never very good with dates...I truly appreciated your advise and deep knowledge on the theme. Are you Romanian??.

Miguel

PS/ Wikipedia quote: "Danubian Principalities (Romanian: Principatele Dunărene) was a conventional name given to the Principalities of Moldavia and Wallachia, which emerged in the early 14th century. The term was coined in the Habsburg Monarchy after the Treaty of Kuchuk Kainarji (1774) in order to designate an area on the lower Danube with a common geopolitical situation.[1] The term was largely used then by foreign political circles and public opinion until the union of the two Principalities (1859). Alongside Transylvania, the Danubian Principalities (or Romanian Principalities) became the basis for the Romanian nation-state."

"Russia had no more troops to throw against Plevna, so they besieged it, and subsequently asked the Romanians to provide extra troops. Soon afterwards, Romanian forces crossed the Danube and joined the siege. On August 16, at Gorni-Studen, the armies around Pleven ? renamed the West Armies ? were placed under the command of the Romanian Prince Carol, aided by the Russian general Pavel Dmitrievich Zotov and the Romanian general Alexandru Cernat."

Congratulations for the finishings...superb, and too for the interiors...First Class

Miguel

Gordon - my condolances.

Gordon did a great explination on the two outter medals. These were the type issued in 1964 as long service medals to individuals in uniform. The following year a new design was created and a Gordon explained this type was set for civilian contractors in the ministry of defense.

THe silver police medal looks to be a nice early type with hot enamel on the prismatic star. As Dan pointed out this is the silver type: issued for 15 years of service in the police forces.

Lastly you have the 'Service to the Fatherland' medal in bronze. This was the first medal designed and issued by decree of the Ministry of Defense (boefre it had been the council of ministers or the presidents council who created medals and orders) in 1956, just a month before the October 23rd revolution... Though after the revolution of 1956 the medal was continued. Though in my opinion one of the most honorable looking medals - it was only awarded for a 'good job' - 'pat on the back' type of medal. The bronze being the lowest grade.

Thanks to both of you Gordon and hunyadi

Miguel

Aside from the combination and misuse of the sword attachments, the difference in colour of the two bravery medal ribbons would cause alarm to me. The medals themselves seem good. This looks typical of a lot of Austrian medal bars I've seen on ebay that are mounted in the German style. I suspect German style mountings look more attractive to some buyers than Austrian ones. They also seem to attract a higher price.

I?ve think the same about the last ribbon, that is clearly soiled, the only thing I can imagine is that he has been partialy exposed to the sun...but is difficult to believe.

The medals as I can check for the markings are OK with the adecuate Vienna mint puntziert at 1 o?clock

Thanks

Miguel

The Erinnerungsband:

Lets see who will come up with the correct answer.

With a red cross on the superior arm???, services to the state in medical-sanitary aid??

Miguel

Yes, the piece shown by Hipnos shows a very fine quality, although I'm not sure that it is made by Rothe & Neffe.

In any case, it's a very well made copy, worth to "fill a gap" in any good collection... until an original piece would "emerge"!

Best wishes,

Enzo

Thanks lads, for your comments and expertize. I can?t find any hallmark so I must conclude that this is a very well made copy silver gilded. probably, I?ll go to a jeweler to question about the piece?s metal...

Thanks again

Miguel

Hallo hipnos,

Congratulations on obtaining some beautiful medal bars,

I like the Romanian bars very much.

If I may make a comment, the Russian Medal that you describe as:

"Russian Independence of Romania Medal" I think its

more correctly known as:

" Medal for Participants in the Russo-Turkish War of 1877 - 1878".

<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Turkish_War,_1877-1878" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Turkish_War,_1877-1878</a>

Kevin in Deva

As ever you are very accurate.

Of course you are right, But the first time I see one it was in conection with the fight for the independence of the romanians principalities with romanian volonteers fighting along the russian army...and the medal is listed as russian. (I?ve read that is so commonly distributed that he comes with the romanian range of decorations..-Thanks CarolI-)

Regards

Miguel

Hi Miguel,

Thanks for letting me know on the group and for the pic. I "may" be intro'd but the problem is I don't think I currently have anything left to trade. I've pretty much gotten rid of all my extras, things I was not in particular need of, etc. I'll try to get the time to look back through and see if I still have anything like that but can't promise that I do.

Please send me a PM with any specific wants and if possible a price for the group if you just want to sell it outright. Perhaps we can work something out.

As far as telling you more about them I think Charles or Gordon could do a much better job on that. I've still got alot to learn myself and I'd be afraid of putting my foot in my mouth.

I can say that the second one from the left is the police medal in silver which is the same as mine that I pictured right above it. The one to the right of that is I believe called the Fatherland medal and looks to be the one in bronze. The other medals I leave to the others as they're two I don't have. They both look to be 10 year awards but with the difference in ribbon I'm guessing for different branches of the military or difference organizations or?

Dan

Not a problem...I leave town tomorrow to a trip to turkey with family...I?ll return 28th...The medals will stay there. I prefer trade...but..

regards

miguel

Gentlements: Here you Have a St Stephen I own...probably is a Siver gilded, jeweler copy, but I think that that the Workmanship is very good.

Some hints to find their origins...??

Regards

Miguel

Figure almost every single officer (9,990 out of 10,0000 ) got a "bronze" (gold colored) Signum Laudis and that comes out about right. Silvers were much less plentiful only because I think many officers jumped over these to some other award like one of the Orders or the Military Merit Cross.

Back in 1966 Dr. Klietmann cited

Gold Bravery Medals = about 3,700

Large Silver Bravery Medals = about 143,000

Small Silver Bravery Medals = about 384,000

Bronze Bravery Medals = about 950,000

These were still being slowwwwwwwwwwwly processed for awards in the 1st Austrian Republic during the 1930s.

I have never seen figures for the "K" Large Silver and Gold just to officers, so I do not know if those are included in the totals above.

Unlike most countries, Austrian awards carried real BENEFITS. Recipients of the above medals received a monthly payment of 30 K, 15 K, and 7.50 K, carried over into Schillings under the 1st Republic and as far as I know continued right through the Third Reich and under the 2nd Republic until the last recipient had died. No monthly payments to bronze winners, but anyone who received the 1917 Karl Troop Cross was immediately allowed the right to vote at age 20 rather than the then-legal age of 24.

Hi Rick

Sorry for pester you with a lot of questions...The Signum laudis is a lesser bravery award than the bravery medals???

Thanks

Miguel

Who can show the appropriate original ribbon to that medal?

Does anyone has one original ribbon left for me to complete this medal?

Here is my Horty Bravery but in Bronze, I think the ribbon is similar...I?m afraid that I?ve not any replacement, I?m sorry

Miguel

1/ Is possible to find a big bravery medal with a little one, together is a same bar?

Yes. ANY?ALL of the 4 different classes could be worn together.

2/ The order of prelation on the bar must be first the older, or first the newer, in awards of the same rank??

Either way.

3/ Sword devices must be absents in any austrian medal of the period?? and in the Ehren Kreutz?

Bravery Medals NEVER had the X device since they were always for bravery. There should never be any device on a Hindenburg Cross MEDAL BAR ribbon, but often this silly/dumb use of an X device is seen. But it was WRONG.

4/ We can assume that the bar is a late made-for-sell mount??

One of the clips looks like it is broken off the last medal. SOMEBODY has already monkeyed with it. Any attempt to alter anything now will break off the tabs and ruin the bar.

5/ As I?ll keep the bar, as correct as possible, do you have any suggestion about what medal must be the more appropiate in the 4th post??

Nothing you do will improve it, and just about anything will only make it worse.

Thanks Rick...

I was wondering about chanfge the last big medal for another litlte, that I own...(Silver or Bronze, I?ve 2 -3 more BM )

I?m amazed that you see the broken clip on the rear...in a low resolution photo..and I?ve not notice nothing with the bar on my hands...!!!

Really you had a good eye for this...

?What?s your Job?

Regards and Thanks very much!!

Miguel

Well, trying... if that doesn't work perhaps cloning? Many thanks for the title of the award my friend. I was at a loss on that one. Can't wait till they arrive... hopefully sometime next week. Keeping my fingers tightly crossed!

Dan

Hi Haupmann, I?ve some Hungarian Comm medals in my collection, but I don?t know nothing about they.

If you?re interested I?ll trade this group for any medal from before 1945, (european), better german,or romanian, german, bulgarian, etc...

Thanks

Please tel me about the medals I?ve; the extreme?s medals...I suppose that they are a pair od GC&LS medal...?

Thanks a lot

Miguel

Hi

the top right badge is from the Ljotic National volonteers guard from WWII

Best regards

Milan

Yes It looks like a MO bravery medal silver (2nd class)

Milan I want to ask you why in some No orders groups, the "Albanian retreat medal" is placed in first place, like in the pisc you send that has preeminence over the military zeal medal and other campaign medals...It?s not considered a campaign medal?? Is a "Royal House" medal??

Thanks

Miguel

Chromed bars like that still look new.

There should be NO devices on the ribbons-- though period errors were often made with such things.

BUT

It was impossible to have two of the SAME class of Bravery Medal worn together-- for a second award, a bar was worn on the ribbon of the first medal earned.

It appears that the Karl Large Silver Bravery Medal is original-- is that the die cutter's name (circled) "KAUTSCH" under his shoulder? I cannot see if the die cutter "LEISEK" is in the same place on the Franz Joseph medal. Original medals also have the Assay ffice mark on the RIM (arrows to about where they are on the EDGE of the medal) of the medal up near the suspension loop-- usually a TINY indented letter "A" for Vienna.

Large Silver Bravery Medals are no longer easy to find. Depending on what you paid for this, you may want to keep it if both medals are original.

The bar itself has major problems with being a period original with this combination.

Gentlemen

Dears Haynau and Rick research

LEISEK AN KAUTSCH ARE UNDER THE EMPEROR?S HEAD...I?VE FIND TOO, THE TINY A in a circle deep on the rim of both medals... So it seems they?re Ok?

Some questions more

1/ Is possible to find a big bravery medal with a little one, together is a same bar? two diffferent emperors don?t make any difference?

2/ The order of prelation on the bar must be first the older, or first the newer, in awards of the same rank??

3/ Sword devices must be absents in any austrian medal of the period?? and in the Ehren Kreutz?

4/ We can assume that the bar is a late made-for-sell mount??

5/ As I?ll keep the bar, as correct as possible, do you have any suggestion about what medal must be the more appropiate in the 4th post??

Thanks a lot for you qualified comments, I wish to made a pair of beers with you...

Miguel