leigh kitchen

The Royal Regiment of Fusiliers.

188 posts in this topic

ID: 151   Posted (edited)

I was lucky enough to win the badge featured below on our favourite & worse auction site. No one bid except me and thus I got it for the very reasonable opening bid. I don't know why no one else bid, I suspect many didn't read the auction properly and believed it to be a regular cap badge. Others would have thought it was a dodgy one as it doesn't match the current Fur Cap/ busby badges.

I luckily remember seeing this very badge in the MHS journal just recently Volume 43 No 169 August 92 page 25/26. stated in the Journal as RRF probably circa 1969. However as the photo of the drummers are clearly wearing all white plumes in the fur cap I think its a Royal Fusilers Drum Platoon wearing the Fusilier Brigade Drummers fur cap badge. If the RF drummers where wearing it then I presume the others in the Brigade did also. I'm not sure if that badge extended into the amalgamation during 1969 but it was gone by 1970. So all in all a rare Fusiliers badge and a great cheap buy.

Dimensions: approx 14cm x 10.5cm or 5 3/4" High by 4 1/4 " Wide.

Edited by tynesideirish

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Nice catch, sounds like you're right about otherwise interested parties overlooking this because they did'nt bother to check that the entry referred to something a little larger than a regular sized cap badge.

From what you're saying, then it seems to originate as Fusilier Brigade insgnia - I saw one or two of these at antique fairs in London & in dealers lists in about 1972 or 3, they were labelled as RRF Drum Major's badges & cost £10 a time, & I think that one was worn by 1 RRF's Drummy in the 1970's.

The Int Officer of 1 RRF, Captan Sanderson used to have one laying around on his desk in about 1976 - 77, which led me to think that it was an officer's badge, perhaps also used or intended to be used in theory by WO's & Drum Majors.

Pity I tend to avoid that site for a variety of reasons - the only way I buy there is if I trawl the web looking for a particular badge or bit of medal ribbon & follow a link there - then pandora's box is open & I'm bidding on all sorts of shny stuff.......

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It was always disputed as to whether or not it was ever worn in the fur cap until the photo appeared in the MHS Bulletin as mentioned by TI. However as he mentions they wear a white plume and not the familiar red over white as would be worn by the RRF, so it appears we're looking at the period of the "Fusilier Brigade".

I too have one of these large Fusilier badges as illustrated by TI in mint condition bought in Warwickshire in the early 80's, but mine has a black felt backing shaped slightly larger than the badge itself, which leads me to believe that they were eventually worn on the Pioneer aprons.

Hopefully if I get home next month, volcanic ash permitting, I'll try and post photo's of some of the more unusual RRF badges.

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Thanks for the comments.

These badges where obviously unpopular, and didn't 'look right' on the fur cap. They where certainly replaced fairly quickly by those Ind/Pak ones, we've seen previously.

Therefore, surplus to fur cap requirements, the Regiment (or QM more like!) being frugal would certainly have reused them if at all possible and as Graham states, where better than on the Pioneer apron. Makes sense to me.

Either way I'm happy it's mine!

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"Either way I'm happy it's mine!"

Too right - as in all of my years of collecting I've seen less than half a dozen of these rather large badges. I also have to agree with you on the fact that when seen worn with the fur cap it just doesn't look right at all.

I think I'm also right in saying that some of the first RRF capbadges were also with a bi-metal finish, pre-dating the current bi-metal one. I'm saying this because my old mate Ed Forrest(late 1st Bn,RNF) was one of those transferred to the 1st RRF in 1968 and he showed me his original bi-metal capbadge, which had me stunned, as I always thought it was only ever produced in anodised aluminium. Whether or not it was private purchase I couldn't say, but it was the genuine thing.

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Latest addition to the RRF collection a "Fifth Fusiliers" title in subdued. The new Territorial Battalion of the RRF consisting of;-

H.Q. Coy.

'X' Coy.

'Z' Coy.

'D'(Rifles)Coy. Formed from the remnants of the 7th(Durham)Bn, Light Infantry

A unique combination of Fusiliers and Rifles based around both Northumberland & Durham

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Poster from the 1st Bn's tour of Cyprus, 1978:

On the Left is CPL Bob Heaney Anti Tanks/MilanPLt in the middle is L/CPl Paul Armstrong also Anti tanks/Milan, I forget the other guy.

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Is that for post 127, the recruiting poster / calender? Ta - "Jesus" Laud / Lord on the right.

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Do I need a backing plate behind my RRF cap badge (new badge and hackle) to hold the Hackle in the right position.. any help or pics on how to do it would be good...

Regards

Frank

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Do I need a backing plate behind my RRF cap badge (new badge and hackle) to hold the Hackle in the right position.. any help or pics on how to do it would be good...

Regards

Frank

Frank, we used to cut a shield shape with flat bottom and rounded top out of the plastic that came in the Ammo tins. We fiddled with it until it was comfortable. Nothing was issued, people used card and all sorts of other things. The plastic wasn't sharp or hard, thus it was popular. Just put the badge lugs through it and the badge will stay upright. It's not just a Fusilier thing either, lots of units used internal backings. The hackle just slips down the back. It should be crimped for easy removal.

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Thanks for the comments.

These badges where obviously unpopular, and didn't 'look right' on the fur cap. They where certainly replaced fairly quickly by those Ind/Pak ones, we've seen previously.

Therefore, surplus to fur cap requirements, the Regiment (or QM more like!) being frugal would certainly have reused them if at all possible and as Graham states, where better than on the Pioneer apron. Makes sense to me.

Either way I'm happy it's mine!

The badges in use in 1 RRF in the early 70's were dies-truck yellow metal, the heavy, crude, cast ones with a copper sheen when new, they were made in Pakistan & shipped to The Tower (where I was lurking for a few months) about January 1980, along with hackles in the colours of the old component regiments & officer's gilt & silver coloured bearet badges of the same size & design as the anod. aluminium beret badge.

I got a few of the Drummer's badges at about £1 a time, hackles at about 25p a time, but never got my hands on the officer's beret badges at £2 a time - I asked, Col Connelly did'nt say no, but the matter was tactfully dropped.

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Not sure about this one. A Land Rover CP and two operators, certainly taken sometime after the introduction of the new DPM combat dress.

They seem familiar Graham, possibly 1970's vintage - try your old RRF contacts out with "Dekka Irons" Ant-Tank Pl Support Coy & 6 Pl "X" Coy 1 RRF for the man on the left.

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ID: 163   Posted (edited)

A Drummer's fur cap badge in die-struck yellow metal which has been plated a silver colour. A matt, frosted appearance on the back, polished on the front, this badge is toned & appears to have a bit of age to it.

Memory may be playing tricks, but I have a vague recollection (as usual)that the CO & other officers of 1 RRF in the 1970's aquired the Drummer's die-struck yellow metal badges for use on their private vehicles vehicles, possibly having them chromed, but I don't think this is chromed.

Could it have been worn by a TA battalion? I think it was 6 RRF who were known by the name of Volunteers some years ago?

Edited by leigh kitchen

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ID: 165   Posted (edited)

"Gilt & silver plated", measuring 90 mm x 65 mm, two lug fittings to the rear.

A Queen's Fusiliers badge?

This was advertised as a RRF helmet badge.

I have an idea that I've seen this in a photo in The London Regiment edition of "The Regiment" some years ago, but I have'nt got the magazine to hand.

I have an idea that this may actually be a helmet insignia of The Queen's Fusiliers, as unlikely as it seems.

The single badge photos are all of this 90 mm x 65 mm badge, note that the dragon's wing is laying down as per the design on the current bi-metal fur cap badge on which the St George & dragon have turned to face the same way as this & the cap badge (perhaps the same dies are used? The wing is not sticking up in the air as it does on the anodised cap, collar dog & the previous designs of fur cap badges. The area between the dragon & the base of the wreath on the mounted design is not voided.

The photo of four badges shows the large badge here with an anoidised aluminium cap badge & collar dog & the cast yellow metal fur cap badge for size comparison (but I have'nt got one of those nice big 14.5 cm badges to show with them).

Edited by leigh kitchen

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The stable belt of RRF, the belt plates fittings are of brass other than the badge, which is of anodiused aluminium & identical to the cap badge other than that it has two fittings are shorter than those of the cap badge & it does'nt have the hackle attachment of the cap badge> The belt is shortened / lengthened by velcos strips sewn along parts of its length inside.

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Also worn by RRF, at least in the 1970's, were older style stable belts with leather strap fittings, previously worn by The Lancashire Fusiliers.

This particular one is named to a member of The Signals Platoon, H.Q. Company, 3 RRF.

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ID: 168   Posted (edited)

A Drummer's fur cap badge in die-struck yellow metal which has been plated a silver colour. A matt, frosted appearance on the back, polished on the front, this badge is toned & appears to have a bit of age to it.

Memory may be playing tricks, but I have a vague recollection (as usual)that the CO & other officers of 1 RRF in the 1970's aquired the Drummer's die-struck yellow metal badges for use on their private vehicles vehicles, possibly having them chromed, but I don't think this is chromed.

Could it have been worn by a TA battalion? I think it was 6 RRF who were known by the name of Volunteers some years ago?

Leigh

Not seen one of these before, but it does look pukka enough for me and I'd love to know more about it myself. Having PM'd you earlier I wonder if it was one of the early pattern Balderick badges worn by drummers. The same badge, although unplated was taken and turned into a plaid broach for the Northumbrian piper, which I have and will have to photo for this section.

The "Fusiler Volunteers" which you mention were a creation of the 1968(?) T.A.V.R. during the big MOD shake-up, with a single company being provided by Northumberland, London, Warwicks & Lancashire, but little is known exactly as to what badges they adopted apart from the normal RRF badges we see.

Edited by Graham Stewart

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"Gilt & silver plated", measuring 90 mm x 65 mm, two lug fittings to the rear.

A Queen's Fusiliers badge?

This was advertised as a RRF helmet badge.

I have an idea that I've seen this in a photo in The London Regiment edition of "The Regiment" some years ago, but I have'nt got the magazine to hand.

I have an idea that this may actually be a helmet insignia of The Queen's Fusiliers, as unlikely as it seems.

The photo of four badges shows the large badge here with an anoidised aluminium cap badge & collar dog & the cast yellow metal fur cap badge for size comparison (but I have'nt got one of those nice big 14.5 cm badges to show with them).

Picked one of these up years ago and yours is infact only the second I've ever seen. The "Queens Fusiliers" as they were, seemed to keep their old pattern RRF/Queens badges for each the RRF/Queens contingents that made up the battalion, with only slip on titles seemingly made to reflect that it was a 'new' unit.

I'm unsure if they had a band or what the head-dress was for the band, but unless they wore a blue cloth helmet don't think it was for the fur cap, but it could have been a pouch badge for the Fusilier element of the band, as the "Queens" pouch badge itself was quite large.

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I've got some idea that they were produced for the Drummy as headress or baldric badge, something like that, & that only a few were made, I don't know where I've got that idea from, it might just be a flight of fancy, it's just ringing bells from somewhere. Queen's Fusiliers, the more recent London Regt, I just can't place it.

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ID: 171   Posted (edited)

It was always disputed as to whether or not it was ever worn in the fur cap until the photo appeared in the MHS Bulletin as mentioned by TI. However as he mentions they wear a white plume and not the familiar red over white as would be worn by the RRF, so it appears we're looking at the period of the "Fusilier Brigade".

I too have one of these large Fusilier badges as illustrated by TI in mint condition bought in Warwickshire in the early 80's, but mine has a black felt backing shaped slightly larger than the badge itself, which leads me to believe that they were eventually worn on the Pioneer aprons.

Hopefully if I get home next month, volcanic ash permitting, I'll try and post photo's of some of the more unusual RRF badges.

Finally got around to picking up one of the "large" (about 14cm x 11cm) badges today, see what it's like when it arrives........

......and here it is, the following morning.

Edited by leigh kitchen

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ID: 172   Posted (edited)

Having not been in the UK for the last four months, I haven't been able to add to this thread. However now that I'm back I can now add this one. The RRF Regimental Handbook dated 2004 and what an informative book it is, not unlike regimental "Standing Orders". Very, very pleased to get my hands on this one.

Edited by Graham Stewart

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A sight not seen since 1968 all of the hackles being worn with No.2's and the old Fusilier Brigade cap badge, before they became Royal Regiment of Fusiliers.

This is probably amalgamation day St.Georges Day 1968, as you will note the different coloured hackles being worn. Obviously seem to be the youngest lads of each regiment parading in full dress(apart from fur caps) for the occassion.

These are Junior Soldiers From the junior soldiers wing, 15 to 17 year olds, Corps of drums at St Georges Barracks, Sutton Coldfield. They got these scarlets coats in 1963 and first wore them on my pass out parade.

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A sight not seen since 1968 all of the hackles being worn with No.2's and the old Fusilier Brigade cap badge, before they became Royal Regiment of Fusiliers.

These are lads from the junior soldiers 15 to 17 year olds wing corps of drums. Little buggers but could be quite smart on parade.

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A sight not seen since 1968 all of the hackles being worn with No.2's and the old Fusilier Brigade cap badge, before they became Royal Regiment of Fusiliers.

These are lads from the junior soldiers 15 to 17 year olds wing corps of drums. Little buggers but could be quite smart on parade.

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