My Grandad, William John Beadle, which regiment?

[Jeanette]

The guy on the left as you look on this picture is William John Beadle, we think was taken in India?, as far as my Dad can remember, but he and I would love to know what regiment?, can anyone steer in the right direction.He [William John Beadle] actually was at Dunkirk when they were rescued from the beaches, my Dad said he never talked about it, this picture was taken early on in his career, he was, we believe, a drill sargeant later on.Any information is gratefully received,

Kind Regards Jeanette Newton.

[jagwca]

Jeanette,

Looks like the Notts & Derby (Sherwood Foresters) Regt.

John

[Guest Rick Research]

Where would they have been stationed, in the late 1920s--at home, or abroad?

[jagwca]

1st Batt mainly at home.

2nd Batt. India 1922-33

Sudan 1934

Home 1935

France 1939-40

John

Edited June 8, 2009 by jagwca

[Jeanette]

Jeanette,

Looks like the Notts & Derby (Sherwood Foresters) Regt.

John

Thank you so much,

regards J. Newton.

[Jeanette]

Where would they have been stationed, in the late 1920s--at home, or abroad?

Probably abroad my Dad says.

Kind regards, J. Newton

[Jeanette]

1st Batt mainly at home.

2nd Batt. India 1922-33

Sudan 1934

Home 1935

France 1939-40

John

Thank you so much, I can look these up, many thanks,

Kind regards J. Newton/

[Jeanette]

Where would they have been stationed, in the late 1920s--at home, or abroad?

We think abroad, my dad says.

[Jeanette]

1st Batt mainly at home.

2nd Batt. India 1922-33

Sudan 1934

Home 1935

France 1939-40

John

thank you kindly, J. Newton

[leigh kitchen]

Sorry chaps, the cap badges are The Bedfordshire & Hertforshire Regiment (The Beds & Herts or "Beds & Hearts").

The regiment went through WWI as the Bedfordshire Regiment, but at the end of the war the were renamed to reflect the fact that it had included a large number of men from Hertfordshire.

There was a Hertfordshire Regiment, which continued in existence, but it was'nt a "regular" regiment, it was one of the four Territorial Force infantry regiments (the others being the Cambridgeshire, Monmouthshire & Herefordshire Regiments) that existed, although they were in effect TF battalions of regular regiments.

The photo is 1920's at a guess? - they're wearing Beds & Herts cap badges & regimental buttons rather than the WWI era General Service pattern, one wearing the collar badges, which tended not to be worn during WWI, & the lad on the right is wearing what looks like a curved shoulder title, but unlike the simple one word curved title of the regulars this one appears to have a device above it, probably the numeral for a TF battalion?

Anyway, they're wearing the "smartened up" post WWI, or at least the lad on the left is - look at the reworked collar, for a smarter look.

This fellow is wearing a tunic which appears to have "baling creases" in it - look at his left arm, it's possible that he's not been tool careful with the iron or the coat hanger, but it looks as if the tunic has been folded, typical sort of creases in a gartment which has folded & baled in a stack of others.

[jagwca]

Hi Liegh,I think the collar dogs are the key(I don'y have any information on them)But the badge is just blurry enough to get confused as it does appear to have a crown at the top thats why I went that route.

The 1st Batt. served in India prior to the war so it could be a fit.

John

[Jeanette]

Sorry chaps, the cap badges are The Bedfordshire & Hertforshire Regiment (The Beds & Herts or "Beds & Hearts").

The regiment went through WWI as the Bedfordshire Regiment, but at the end of the war the were renamed to reflect the fact that it had included a large number of men from Hertfordshire.

There was a Hertfordshire Regiment, which continued in existence, but it was'nt a "regular" regiment, it was one of the four Territorial Force infantry regiments (the others being the Cambridgeshire, Monmouthshire & Herefordshire Regiments) that existed, although they were in effect TF battalions of regular regiments.

The photo is 1920's at a guess? - they're wearing Beds & Herts cap badges & regimental buttons rather than the WWI era General Service pattern, one wearing the collar badges, which tended not to be worn during WWI, & the lad on the right is wearing what looks like a curved shoulder title, but unlike the simple one word curved title of the regulars this one appears to have a device above it, probably the numeral for a TF battalion?

Anyway, they're wearing the "smartened up" post WWI, or at least the lad on the left is - look at the reworked collar, for a smarter look.

This fellow is wearing a tunic which appears to have "baling creases" in it - look at his left arm, it's possible that he's not been tool careful with the iron or the coat hanger, but it looks as if the tunic has been folded, typical sort of creases in a gartment which has folded & baled in a stack of others.

Hi, this is all totally amazing, I have written everything down, my Dad is amazed, we never even noticed the creases in the tunic, but now you mention it, wow!!, has given us alot to go on, everybody's inpur has been great,

Kind regards J. Newton.

[Jeanette]

Hi Liegh,I think the collar dogs are the key(I don'y have any information on them)But the badge is just blurry enough to get confused as it does appear to have a crown at the top thats why I went that route.

The 1st Batt. served in India prior to the war so it could be a fit.

John

Hi, My Dad says that his Dad certainly did serve in India prior to the second world war war, he later on ended up in Dunkirk in The Royal Artillery [can they swap regiments?]like my Dad said?. He was taken off the beaches at Dunkirk, shot in the foot, shrapnel, after that he was sent to Aldershot to train fresh recruits for the rest of the war, they would never let him go back, which probably saved his life!.Thank ypu so much for your input, very helpful, written everything down!!.

Kind regards J. Newton..

[leigh kitchen]

Hi Liegh,I think the collar dogs are the key(I don'y have any information on them)But the badge is just blurry enough to get confused as it does appear to have a crown at the top thats why I went that route.

The 1st Batt. served in India prior to the war so it could be a fit.

John

I'm not too clued up on collar dogs, but he cap badges are definitely Beds & Herts, there's a certain similarity of design in that both regiments had a hart on a Maltese Cross above a name scroll, but the dimensions are different & the Beds & Herts design was in the centre of a star. I see what you mean about the appearance of a crown at the top of the badge, it looks like a Victorian Crown, but it's just the points of the star.

I'll post photos of the two badges.

The collar dogs - the ones shown are Beds Regt or Beds & Herts, the Sherwood Forester's at this time would, I think, have been the hart on Maltese Cross.

The Beds Regt & the Beds & Herts collar dogs varied in the name scroll beneath the hart, it should be possible to compare the two & decide which one is shown in the photo by the shape of the scroll - the Beds scroll had forked ends to the scroll, the Beds & Herts a "curly" design without the forks.

Next of kin will be able to research units & service with MOD.

[jagwca]

Leigh,after a much closer scrutiny of the cap badge have to agree Beds & Herts a rush to judgement and my book on wartime badges is not the best.

2nd Batt. served in India 1920

Iraq 1925

UK 1926

Palestine 1936

UK 1938

France 1939/40 4th Dividion

John

[leigh kitchen]

I'm not in a positon to dig out badges from my collection, but here are some illustrations

The badges are easly identfiable by the names on the scrolls - the "Notts & Derby" (Sherwood Foresters), the Bedfordshire Regiment, the Bedfordshire & Hertfordshire Regiment, worn after the change of title in 1919 until about 1958.

The Sherwood Foresters collar badge was a smaller version of the cap badge but without the name scroll, the buttons worn in the photo are the Beds & Herts Regt & which show the hart wthin a name circlet.

Regimental buttons were reintroduced for line infantry in about 1924, so the cap badges & possibly the collar dogs (have'nt had a proper look at those) date the as no earlier than 1919, the buttons to no earlier than 1924.

IN fact, now I look closer at the photo, the collar dogs worn do appear to be the Bedfordshire & Hertfordshire version.

Edited June 12, 2009 by leigh kitchen

[Jeanette]

I'm not in a positon to dig out badges from my collection, but here are some illustrations

The badges are easly identfiable by the names on the scrolls - the "Notts & Derby" (Sherwood Foresters), the Bedfordshire Regiment, the Bedfordshire & Hertfordshire Regiment, worn after the change of title in 1919 until about 1958.

The Sherwood Foresters collar badge was a smaller version of the cap badge but without the name scroll, the buttons worn in the photo are the Beds & Herts Regt & which show the hart wthin a name circlet.

Regimental buttons were reintroduced for line infantry in about 1924, so the cap badges & possibly the collar dogs (have'nt had a proper look at those) date the as no earlier than 1919, the buttons to no earlier than 1924.

IN fact, now I look closer at the photo, the collar dogs worn do appear to be the Bedfordshire & Hertfordshire version.

Hi, thank you so much, all this input is great, these badges are marvellous, and I do think you are correct, Bedfordshire and Hertferdshire,it has given us so much info to go on for research, I have written everybodys info down, and is well appreciated.

Kind regards Mrs. J. Newton, formerly Beadle, he was my Grandad on my Dad's side.My Dad served in Korea, at end of War.

[Jeanette]

I'm not in a positon to dig out badges from my collection, but here are some illustrations

The badges are easly identfiable by the names on the scrolls - the "Notts & Derby" (Sherwood Foresters), the Bedfordshire Regiment, the Bedfordshire & Hertfordshire Regiment, worn after the change of title in 1919 until about 1958.

The Sherwood Foresters collar badge was a smaller version of the cap badge but without the name scroll, the buttons worn in the photo are the Beds & Herts Regt & which show the hart wthin a name circlet.

Regimental buttons were reintroduced for line infantry in about 1924, so the cap badges & possibly the collar dogs (have'nt had a proper look at those) date the as no earlier than 1919, the buttons to no earlier than 1924.

IN fact, now I look closer at the photo, the collar dogs worn do appear to be the Bedfordshire & Hertfordshire version.

Thank you Leigh, I have saved these Badges to a separate folder, many, many thanks.

Kind regards J. Newton.

[Jeanette]

I'm not in a positon to dig out badges from my collection, but here are some illustrations

The badges are easly identfiable by the names on the scrolls - the "Notts & Derby" (Sherwood Foresters), the Bedfordshire Regiment, the Bedfordshire & Hertfordshire Regiment, worn after the change of title in 1919 until about 1958.

The Sherwood Foresters collar badge was a smaller version of the cap badge but without the name scroll, the buttons worn in the photo are the Beds & Herts Regt & which show the hart wthin a name circlet.

Regimental buttons were reintroduced for line infantry in about 1924, so the cap badges & possibly the collar dogs (have'nt had a proper look at those) date the as no earlier than 1919, the buttons to no earlier than 1924.

IN fact, now I look closer at the photo, the collar dogs worn do appear to be the Bedfordshire & Hertfordshire version.

You must have a marvellous collection of Badges, I do appreciate it, my old Dad is thrilled with all the feedback.

Kind regards J. Newton.

[Jeanette]

I'm not too clued up on collar dogs, but he cap badges are definitely Beds & Herts, there's a certain similarity of design in that both regiments had a hart on a Maltese Cross above a name scroll, but the dimensions are different & the Beds & Herts design was in the centre of a star. I see what you mean about the appearance of a crown at the top of the badge, it looks like a Victorian Crown, but it's just the points of the star.

I'll post photos of the two badges.

The collar dogs - the ones shown are Beds Regt or Beds & Herts, the Sherwood Forester's at this time would, I think, have been the hart on Maltese Cross.

The Beds Regt & the Beds & Herts collar dogs varied in the name scroll beneath the hart, it should be possible to compare the two & decide which one is shown in the photo by the shape of the scroll - the Beds scroll had forked ends to the scroll, the Beds & Herts a "curly" design without the forks.

Next of kin will be able to research units & service with MOD.

Is there an e.mail adress I could write to or send to to find out more research?, what is units and service with MOD, I know I don't understand alot of terms, still learning?????

Kind regards J. Newton.

[leigh kitchen]

By units& service I mean the regiments or corps that he was in & details of his time in uniform such as promotions, theatres of war etc (MOD is Ministry of Defence), try here,

http://www.veterans-uk.info/service_records/army.html

[Jeanette]

By units& service I mean the regiments or corps that he was in & details of his time in uniform such as promotions, theatres of war etc (MOD is Ministry of Defence), try here,

http://www.veterans-uk.info/service_records/army.html

Thank you so much, I will take a look at that web site,

Kind regards