Nick

Lets get back to medals, other issues dealt with elsewhere.

Post have been removed and this thread has been locked as this is a clear attempt to stir up the same old arguments seen on other forums.

Quite frankly I am not interested in listening anymore to this issue, it is boring and unless some real good evidence is unearthed to swing this either way, I am going to ban further discussion on this topic until further notice.

Reason for ban: It is a divisive, inconclusive debate

He would have been entitled to the 1897 Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee medal. 1902 King Edward VII Coronation Medal. 1911 George V Coronation Medal. There may also be some limited records of his service at the Metropolitan Police Museum as they hold some Divisional Records.

Bob

Good question as there is a rumour of a lot of Czech fakes out there.

Nick

Just for your info the award was damaged and is bent in the centre.

The best photo I can find for the moment. A close up of the skull would show dotted lines on the cranium of the skull. The acorns also have stippling on the bottom shells.

I have not got access to my pictures of my hollow back at the moment, but there is a marked difference in detail especially on the skull. When I get them I will post them up later today.

Nick

Martin

Welcome to the forum. I am afraid the problem with these badges is that for every person who says they like this badge you will get another who says they don't. There are far too many self appointed experts out there who would give you any number of reasons why they don't like it or why they do.

As Prosper has highlighted because of this 'unknown' element many collectors would not touch any Bandenkampfabzeichen.

I can't claim to know any more than the average collector. I have had one of these in my collection in the past which I was 99% sure was original, but as with all these badges I couldn't be 100% certain. But this does not help you, nor will my response as I may be right or may be wrong in my assessment.

But rather than sit on the fence I will stick my neck out and say that I don't particularly like the lack of detail on this badge. The skull lacks detail as well as the acorns on the wreath. I have found that this type of semi hollow backed vacuum cast award may be pretty rough in appearance and finish, but what they shouldn't lack is detail. What I perceive to be good awards have a lot of detail on the obverse. It may just be the photo, but your badge to me lacks detail.

Nick

Gordon

Can we have a close up of the skull please.

I have a love hate relationship with these badges. More verging on the hate

the unpalatable truth is that nobody actually knows what is original or not when it comes to these convincing-looking examples

I agree with PK that these post Junker type badges are always the most controversial and raise the most concerns. This has been compounded by an array of very good fakes that try and match this type of manufacture and design.

I can't comment on the gold wash but would like to see more closeups of the badge itself. Especially the skull.

As I know a few of you like this thing, some more ghosts:

I have seen these for sale in Europe at medal dealers as well as fleamarkets so they are out there ! I have also a lot of plastic 'modern' copies of various tinnies many of which were not originally made in plastic.

Marcus

I was recently disturbed to learn that an Ek2 packet I sold (a few years back) with original EK and ribbon is probably a fake (the envelope that is). The packet came from a lot of various envelopes bought from a well known dealer a few years back if I recall correctly.

Can you give us more of a general input on EK2 packets and what to look out for.

Nick

Soldiers Died to my recollection does not include RFC officers.

Nick

James

Fascinating stuff. Thanks for that family history. He was a brave man your father that is for sure. A really nice set of medals too.

Thanks for sharing it with us.

Nick

The dark edges are the edges of the adjacent ribbons.

Yes you are quite right the dark edges are the adjacent ribbons.

I go with that Don, plus they should take precedence oer the Anschluss medal.

But wait is that indeed the Anschluss medal ribbon ??

Paul

I am not going to go down the road of what I think of COAs, but as for Detlevs if he sold the medal with a COA he would refund the money. I am not sure what happens if a third party sells a medal on with a Detlev COA whether this still means he guarantees it or not.

As for the 800 version I simply do not know either way, it is not something I have seen before.

Paul

Interesting subject this one and a very overlooked medal. Which is nothing new as it was also downplayed during the Third Reich era as well.

This is a mounted group. The lifesaving medal has been worn by the medals either side and denazified, the other medals on the group had been reversed to hide the swastikas, so I presume that this group had been worn post war at some point, maybe at veterans events. Unfortunately the messing with the medals has caused them to be misaligned.

Back to the life saving medals. This is the silver marked half moon version.

As for the 800 silver marked version this is not one I have heard of before. Looking at the medal on the WAF thread it certainly looks interesting. But just because it appears in a book or has a COA , does it make it original ? I am sure Detlev has his reasons for believing in its authenticity, but I would like to hear others who have knowledge of this manufacture type for this medal.

Nick

Chairman

VtwinVince

This thread is about a stolen collection of items. Please do not try and hijack this worthwhile thread with such a controversial topic, which is obviously politically motivated and unwelcome.

A reply is unnecessary. Back on topic please

Thank you

Rick

One of the bugbears abour Police & Fire Brigade LS Medals is that they are only show rank and name, no reference to the force or brigade, and no warrant or service number, which as said make them a nightmare to trace.

There are no annual bestowal list either although the Royal Mint names the medals so they may have a central reference list, but I doubt it. Therfore each force or brigade will hold the records.

Lift at the Eagles Nest ?

Thats a tough one any other angle?

That and the fact they like the idea of loads of ribbons on a chest

Yes I have to agree with you on this one. There are many serving soldiers out there now with a chest full of ribbons, compare that to 15 years ago and you were lucky to see two or three up, with the single GSM being the norm. Go back further to the 60 and 70 and it was even worse, one if you were lucky or two if you were a long time server.

I am not sure if this is a good or bad thing really

I agree that we do need a new GSM but it's not going to happen.

I wouldn't be so sure on it not happening, I think it is long overdue and the OSM was not designed to replace long term campaign service. The OSM was designed to stand in for the GSM in operations that did not warrant a specific campaign medal. However this I believe was with lack of foresight into what was on the horizon. Suddenly the British Armed Forces are committed to a pretty major on going campaigns. This to me cries out for a new GSM for campaign service supported by the OSM for minor operations. Is it right that the Iraq War medal should still be issued for ongoing operations in Iraq, it is no longer a minor operation so does not warrant the OSM, but by the same token the actual "war" is arguably over, I think this calls for a new GSM Iraq Bar. But only time will tell

Instead of bars it will be new ribbons for each action

They are also issuing bars as above.

Graeme

I am not sure that the Accumulated Service medal can be issued other than for service awarded for the GSM. As they have gone down different paths with the OSM and now Gulf War medal I am not sure it will count. But I think perhaps it is time for a new GSM.