Nick

I agree certainly worthy of a gallantry award i.e. CGC or MC, but not to decry the mans courage in any way awarding a VC ?? It is harder and harder to in this modern age to be actually considered for any type of gallantry award both civilian or military, this dirty war comes along and suddenly a VC. Read the citation as provided by BJOW.

Private Johnson Gideon Beharry - Victoria Cross

Pte Beharry receives the Victoria Cross for two separate acts of outstanding gallantry of the highest order whilst based in Al Amarah, Maysan Province, Iraq, in 2004.

In the first incident on 1 May 2004, Pte Beharry was driving the Platoon Commander?s Warrior armoured vehicle that had been called to the assistance of a foot patrol caught in a series of ambushes. The Warrior vehicle was hit by multiple rocket propelled grenades, causing damage and resulting in the loss of radio communications. The platoon commander, the vehicle?s gunner and a number of other soldiers in the vehicle were injured. Pte Beharry showed initiative and great courage driving through the ambush, taking his own crew and leading five other Warriors to safety. He then demonstrated outstanding bravery by extracting his wounded colleagues from the vehicle, all the time exposed to further enemy fire. He is cited on this occasion for ?valour of the highest order?.

Whilst back on duty on 11 June 2004, Pte Beharry was again driving the lead Warrior vehicle of his platoon through Al Amarah when this vehicle was ambushed. A rocket propelled grenade hit the vehicle and Pte Beharry received serious head injuries. Other rockets hit the vehicle incapacitating his commander and injuring several of the crew. Despite his very serious injuries, from which he is still recovering, Pte Beharry showed great strength of character, taking control of his vehicle and driving it out of the ambush area before losing consciousness. His citation reads:

?For his repeated extreme gallantry and unquestioned valour, despite intense direct attacks, personal injury and damage to his vehicle in the face of relentless enemy action, Private Beharry deserves the highest possible recognition.?

In WW2 RAF pilots were never considered for VC awards for bringing home crippled planes despite suffering multiple injuries and saving their colleugues. Why ? Because there is an element of self preservation. This reads the same to me an element of self preservation in Pte Beharrys actions which given the circumstances is perfectly understandable.

So where is the hopless expectation of death in this scenario, putting his own life after the lives of his colleagues in the expectation of self sacrifice. Well it doesn't stand out to me in that citation or am I missing something.

Its a bloody shame as all they have done is taint a bloody brave act by in my mind giving an inappropriate award for political reasons. After all the army needs a boost (as well as the government) after all the negative press.

When you read WW1 and WW2 citations for the VC it is a bloody different ball game.

Another clue (a giveaway really)

Guess you didn't look hard enough.

Served in both wars actually

The term "on the fiddle" is another one that ties in to the square meal. Around the edge of the square plate was a piece of piping called the fiddle. All meals had to be served on the plate within the fiddle, if the food when rationed out went over the edge of the fiddle it meant the sailor had more than his fair ration share.

Those that where caught stealing where said to be "on the fiddle" as they were having more than they were entitled to as in food being "on the fiddle" mark or over their fair share. Woe betide anyone doing such a thing as it meant a flogging if caught by an officer or a good kicking if caught by their ship mates. :violent-smiley-017:

Another one is the derogatory term "tow rag" to describe someone of dubious character.

This comes from the rag tied to a length of rope that was constantly dangling in the water at the head of the ship where the ships toilets or "heads" were situated. This was pulled up to be used.... you guessed it...... as the communal toilet paper.

Here one for you Navy buffs

I see that the Mau Mau Campaign has been in the press this week. More compensation claims it seems.

Poor chap, a bad way to go and a pretty awful way of being remembered

But it makes an interesting story

I am looking for a good picture of the regulation 1812 officers uniform button. Anyone help ?

Irish Police 2477 [final issue 28.6.12 um-engraved]

Ian

I presume this list relates to the 1911 visit to Ireland medal as opposed to the 1911 Coronation ?

Nick

Ian

Interesting info on the Scottish Police. I will have to remember that for future.

As regards the figures in the medal year book they are way out on a few of the police jubilee & corontation numbers.

As for the 280 figure this was changed in this years book to 2800 issued for the Scottish Police ?

I have been trying to research RIC medals to find out if there are any rolls for the Visit to Ireland medals with little luck so far. The 1900 1903 were named and only given to select officers who policed the route of the Royal Visit. The 1911 was unamed, but I have found an interesting document at the PRO with regards to the numbers issued.

I have been reliably informed that the badge in question on the collar is a crown. All dockyard Constables and Sergeants had the fouled anchor and crown next to each other.

Mystery solved.

I have continued this topic on the new medal forum

http://www.medalforum.com/index.php?showtopic=14

I am doing some research into the nazi banner known as the blood banner or blutfahne.

This became a symbol of the NSDAP and was covered in the blood of Andreas Bauriedl one of the nazi martyrs from 9 November Putsch.

If anyone can tell me anything about this item please post here !!!

Didem

Thanks for the informative update. I am afraid the little I know about the US civil war has been gleaned from novels like Copperhead by Bernard Cornwall.

Yes the medals seem a little poor when you consider that they are pretty hard earnt awards. I imagine that they will be unamed.

I agree that for a Brit to be awarded one they would have to be attached directly to US forces and then they may qualify. As menioed already I am also sure there are a few Brits attached so someone will get one.

Welcome to the forum !

I would be interested to hear any of your experiences with the Mau Mau.

Have you done any research into your family history with the RIC ?

This is another area I am very interested in.

Nick

The Blutorden or Ehrenzeichen vom 9. November 1923 was originally instituted shortly after Hitler came to power and awarded to those members of the party who actively participated in the putsch attempt of 1923. In May 1938 in recognition of special merit in the battle to unify Germany, other party members who were not originally eligable under the first regulations, now qualified and were issued the Blood Order.

These medals are pretty rare, especially the first issue medals and they demand high premiums.

Here is a link to a picture:

http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=1829

The Global War on Terrorism Expeditionary Medal will be awarded to service members who serve in military expeditions to combat terrorism on or after Sept. 11, 2001. Operation Enduring Freedom is the prime operation the medal may be awarded for. Personnel assigned to operations in Afghanistan and the Philippines are examples of service members who will receive the award.

The Global War on Terrorism Service Medal will be awarded to service members who serve in military operations to combat terrorism on or after Sept. 11, 2001. Operation Noble Eagle is an example of the type of operation the medal may be awarded for.

Its nice to see the sharing of knowledge. It is exactly what this forum is for !!

Thanks to you both

Nick

I saw this article on another forum and thought it may interest a few people here. Personally I think it is a very bad idea. It should be down to individuals what they do with their medals. Obviously form a collectors point of view it would not be good, but it is all seems a bit late now for WW2 veterans and would this proposal only apply to current serving soldiers?

My grandfather like many men returning home from WW2 felt sold down the river by the government and subsequently never collected his medals. He didn't give two hoots about them for the rest of his life and never thought of getting them even decades later. I managed to get them many years after he died direct from the medal office. He probably would never have approved of me doing this, but I am proud of what he did and wanted something to remember his contribution and keep within my family.

His feelings were exactly the opposite of what this veteran feels, so who is he to speak on behalf of veterans?

Keith Doucette

Canadian Press

Wednesday, December 22, 2004

HALIFAX -- It's been almost 60 years since Second World War veteran Reid Myers felt the heat of combat.

But his voice breaks with emotion when he tries to explain what the row of carefully polished war medals on his chest means to him.

"I carry a lot of respect. . . . I know that I'll always remember my fallen comrades," he said.

Myers, 82, of Fall River, N.S., was among 13 war veterans who turned out Wednesday to support Halifax-area MP Peter Stoffer's quest to make the sale of war decorations illegal.

Myers, who served in Europe with the 4th Armoured Division, said his medals mean more to him now than they did when he was younger.

"It seems to affect you more later in life because you were too busy back then to think about it - being young and vibrant," he said.

Stoffer, a New Democrat, plans to introduce a private member's bill in the House of Commons in February to coincide with the Year of the Veteran.

He said the move was inspired by a recent public campaign to prevent the sale of a Victoria Cross to a British collector.

Canadians raised $300,000 to keep the medal at home.

Stoffer said preventing the sale of symbols is a matter of respect for veterans and their service to Canada.

"The medals that the men and women wear are not currency," he said at a news conference.

While private members' bills rarely succeed in becoming legislation, Stoffer said he's optimistic this one will gain the support of all MPs.

"There's nothing wrong with the idea being taken by the government and have them run with it, which is something I would encourage," he said.

George Atwood, 84, also a veteran of action overseas with the 4th Armoured Division, knows it's an uphill battle to get a new law in place.

"Canadians are more aware than they were even six months ago, but I think it's still going to take a lot of education," said Atwood, of Sackville, N.S.

Under current legislation, veterans are not permitted to sell their medals, but they can be sold by family members who inherit them.

? Canadian Press 2004

Many of the Old Fighters saw some service in various Friekorps Units. I have a list somewhere of some of the main players let me dig it out.

The press as we all know seem to be the ones that decide most things in the Western World and have so much influence on social, political and economic trends that they have decided a veteran is anyone that serves in a combat zone whether in a combatant or non combatant support role. The term veteran is very much a US influence and when watching US television you will see many references to the word from long serving sports personalities being veterans to police officers with a few year service being called " a veteran with 4 years service" on COPS.

To my mind the term in military terms would be very much dependant on the casualty rate. A very high casualty rate would determine that a soldier who survived a number of weeks may be termed a veteran as opposed to a low casualty rate where it may be years which determins veteran status. To me veteran implies a very experienced soldier. But in the US the terms applies to anyone who has served their country. So anyone that has served in Iraq from the start of the current conflict until today would be seen in the eyes of the media as a Gulf War veteran.

I can understand why they were so unhappy. The Alamo is a a holy shrine in Texas, one thing you don't do is disrespect the Alamo within earshot of a Texan. Very bad idea !