Nick

Many Victorian and Edwardian Police Helmets had divisional numbers on the helmet plate including the Metropolitan Police. As has been pointed out the City of London Police I believe are the only force that have continued this practice.

As for the originality of helmet plates I am sure there are a few restrikes around but as to identifying good from bad it is not my area so can't help sorry !

Just a thought but is it possible that the armband has been left displayed in sunlight for a long time and the dye has faded ?

I have seen the new Iraq medal. It is proposed that those that were involved with the original OP Telic will get a bar with dates on. Those involved in Iraq since the alleged end of the war will be awarded it without a bar.

As for the OSM from a collectors point of view I agree it will be open to abuse as changing a ribbon is easy, but it also means anyone parting with their hard earned cash needs to have more than just the medal to ensure the provenance.

The OSM is being awarded for Afghanistan. Not sure about a NATO though ?

Thanks for the Input.

I have some input I will add on the 1911 Visit to Ireland medal which I have dug out of the PRO soon.

Bob

A photo would probably help and may jog a memory.

Nick

Barney is your man on this one I think.

I have seen several 1887/97 medals that have been silvered and I once had a 1897. The 1887/97 were never issued in solid silver only bronze to all ranks. The silvering is a poor plating which I believe was a period trend with officers silvering them for asthetic reasons. You sometimes see them gilded as well. Why they did it I am not sure.

Bob

I am out on the road at the moment so I do not have access to my reference books. I will see if I can identify it when I get back, but it does not sound familiar.

Nick

Having recently visited the Alamo I though some of you would be interested to know that there were quite a few British amongst the names of the dead defenders. Interesting (but I guess no suprise) to know that a few English, Scotts, Welsh and Irish Immigrants played a part in this famous historical action.

Have a look at the official website:


http://www.thealamo.org/defend.html

Anyone seen the new film version of The Alamo ?

Rupert

Nice website shame my German is so poor but the google translator works well.

Nick

What is the exact naming on the medal please ?

Unfortunately as with a lot of records when forces where amalgamated records were lost or destroyed. Your problem also lies in the fact that the records to this officer relate to the 1950s and are not that old so there may be problems releasing the information if you did find it.

Kilmarnock is now under Strathclyde Police

The Museum is housed within Strathclyde Police Headquarters at 173 Pitt Street, Glasgow G2 4JS.

Museum Curator, 0141 532 2822 or museum@strathclyde.pnn.police.uk

Also try the Glasgow Police Museum it may be able to help:

http://www.policemuseum.org.uk/

Can't help you with the ribbon it is a mystery to me ?

Squadron Leader (Major) is one higher than Flight Lt (Captain).

I have not seen the article any pictures ?

I told you it wasn't cheap flame

I think Dixons sell replacement bars. But they are not cheap !

Nick

The badge on his collar (behind the anchor) I am sure denotes what division he is from.

Unfortunately I have no reference to what Division, had what badge.

Anyone else help

You don't say what force he is with. If he is Met I don't think he is entitled to the 1935, are you sure on the spelling of the name ?

Although the Met Museum has recently closed they did not have a list of whom the 1935 Jubilee medal was awarded to. But the National Records at Kew do have, so you can check there.

For your info I am suprised he is not entiltled as it was awarded to those coming up for retirement so you would have thought he would have ?

I agree the legislation is a total mess with bona fide firearms owners the ones who have suffered and criminality and gun crime higher than ever. flame

With regards the antique element it is strange that if you possess an item and it falls within the legislation as an antique possessed "as a curiosity or ornament" no licence is needed. However if you take the same firearm and decide you want to play with it i.e. a smooth bore musket that sat on a wall for the last 10 years and put black powder in it to see how it works, you then require a licence !!

But to answer your question on obsolete calibres

Here is the link

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/docs/policeguide.pdf

Go to Annex 5 for the list.

Anyone out there collect tinnies ?

I have started collecting them steadily and intend to concentrate on them a lot more.

I would like to hear from any one out there who specialises in them ?

The Knights Cross with Golden Oak leaves swords and diamonds was the highest gallantry award of the Third Reich. It was only awarded once and that was to Luftwaffe Oberst Hans Ulric Rudel.

This man must rate as the most highly decorated combat pilot in history and when you read his CV you quickly see why:

He flew 2,530 operations as a Stuka Pilot on the Eastern Front.
He personally destroyed 532 Red Army Tanks, & 150 AA Batteries.

He sunk a battleship, a cruiser, a destroyer and 70 landing craft as well as other smaller vessels.

He also unbelievably scored nine aerial victories as a STUKA pilot !!!!

He was shot down thirty times, six of which were behind enemy lines.

He was captured by the Russians once and escaped.

He was wounded five times and he lost a leg in action, but this did not stop him returning to the skies and destroying 26 more Soviet Tanks before the end of the war.

A remarkable man by anyone?s book.

However he became an embarrassment to the new post war Germany, as despite his glorious outstanding record, he was an ardent unrepentant Nazi and was outspoken with it.

while I am all for national pride in the accomplishments of our militaries and greatly respect anyone awarded the V.C., I still detect a bit of one upsmanship in your reply

Yes perhaps I can confess to being guilty of that, but as you say national pride does play a part in this debate, and as you have capably demonstrated yourself one up man ship does play a part as well.

What is important is that we all recognise our hero's and what they have done regardless of their nationality. In a society where film stars and football players are seen as hero's it is important to remember the sacrifices that others have made for the greater good.

As for the Knights Cross with oakleaves, swords and diamonds. Remember that these were also awarded for leadership and strategic battlefield ability as well as gallantry. But the highest award of all for the Germans in WW2 the Knights Cross in Gold, Diamonds, swords and oakleaves only awarded once was debatably awarded to the greatest combat flyer the world has ever seen Hans Uric Rudel, but that is for another post.

This is meant to be a Gentleman?s Club and I think that the debate has gone off track some what.

The original question was asked is it harder to be awarded the VC than the Medal of honour ? My response and opinion to this is YES it is harder to be awarded a VC and this is why:

It is ordained that the Cross shall only be awarded for most conspicuous bravery, or some daring or pre-eminent act of valour or self-sacrifice or extreme devotion to duty in the presence of the enemy

This is not the case for the Medal of Honour as it can be awarded in peacetime.

Since 1861 the CMH has been awarded 3400 times.

Since 1854 the VC has been awarded 1354 times.

Therefore even subtracting the 239 awarded in Vietnam I think the statistics speak for themselves. i.e.

In WW2 182 VC's were awarded.

In WW2 433 Congressional Medals of Honour were awarded.

Clearly this illustrates that it is harder for British & Commonwealth troops to be awarded their respective highest Gallantry award.

The point that Tom King was also trying to make is from a medal collector?s point of view. The VC is considered to be the premier gallantry medal in the world. That is why there is a huge and in my opinion disproportionate difference in the value between the two. Again facts speak for themselves at auction this year a WW2 VC to the RAF went for over ?210,000.

As for the comments to date, Biscuit Browns comments were insensitive and flippant, and this is a warning that such comments are not welcome.

Other than that I do believe a serious question was being asked by Firefly which did not deserve such a rebuke from John S.

Clearly both awards are each respective countries highest awards for gallantry with some amazing and selfless acts of courage and tragedy behind each and every medal awarded. Regardless of statistics no one can take away this fact and certainly no one should cast any shadow over their names regardless of their country.

Oh but I forgot that's what exactly the allies did as the victors in WW2. Spoils of war eh Knights Crosses et al:

Lets try to stay focused and respectful please. jumping