Monty

PS, I'd be interested in your books details Paul. Monty

Ah, I've pinned you down Neil. Slightly off topic, however I hope it can be answered here. I have noted City PCs in group photos wearing their 87 and 97 medals, were photos taken of the Met boys doing the same? If so, again out of interest, would it be mandetory? Many thanks Monty (Neil)

Hi Brian, Its actually near Barley Hall in York. I did a display of it during the Jack the Ripper Conference earlier this year. Despite my many many visits to Whitechapel she has only ever been there once. I did a little display off Folgate Street. Not very goodf as trying to find a dark safe spot was hard. If only twas 1888 Montu :)

Hi Guys, Long time no see. Mervyn, its good to see you. Its fantastic to be back and catch up on old posts Ive missed. Fascinating stuff. To keep with the spirit of this thread I attach a photo of my humble lamp. Nothing special but she means a lot to me. Monty

Hi Paul, Many thanks for taking the time, appreciated. I shall mail the chap. Again, Im grateful. Cheers all Monty

Hi Joe, Mervyn, Yep, I believe they (My request is on behalf of another) have contacted The Friends of the Met. I was just wondering if anyone has come across the name in passing, Police Orders, their research etc. Many thanks Neil

Hello Ladies and Gents, Hope alls well. As ever, Im hoping someone can help with a research query. I am trying to pin down a Police Sergeant who was active in H Division (Whitechapel) from 1866 to 3rd May 1891. His name is David Lee (Warrant No 47043). Any info, or suggestions will be gratefully received. Many thanks for your time. Kind regards Monty

Very grateful Tom, As I am to all who've helped. Regards Monty :)

Hi Odin, D'oh as Homer would say. Apologies. Sure, I will forward what I have. Many thanks Monty :)

Hi Odin, Excellent stuff, and most helpful thank you. Now Ive done a little research on Rouse. He appears in the Old Bailey on line in 3 counterfitting cases. 84. 84 and 97. Still with the same collar number of 63L. Now this confuses me if he left in 89. Is there an explaination for this? Also, Ive managed to get intouch with Rouses decendant. If you are interested, and if they are willing, I can pass his service details to you. Again, many thanks for your work. Cheers Monty :)

Hi Mervyn, Best wishes to you for 2012. Didn't she contact you? She never mentioned it again so I assumed she had, apologies. The documentary came out in January last year and I think is doing the rounds on Sky or something. My work also appeared in the Find my Past doc the other month. Doing some more work at the month but nothing major. I don't think it was Bradfords personal pass, just that it was authorised by him, hence his initials. Cheers Monty

Odin, That would be excellent, many thanks indeed. Please, do not let it hinder your own work, I can wait. Kind regards Monty :)

Hi Paul. Firstly a Happy New Year to you and all the members here. To be honest I am not certain of the name Morton. Its the collar number I'm working on as that is the key to the area of research I'm working on. However, the lines you provide are certainly worth chasing and I'm very grateful to you for taking the time to help me. Regards Monty

Hey Mervyn, Hope you are well. Ok, as someone who has trawled through many a Victorian MEPO and HO file, knowing how these things go down, and recognising the ERCB instatntly, I'm pretty confidant that after 30 odd years I've nailed it for you. ERCB are the initials for one Sir Edward Riley Colbourne Bradford. Chief Commisioner to the Metropolitan Police force from 1890 till 1903, which obviously empassed the 1897 jubilee. I hope you can sleep a little easier now ;-) Cheers Monty

Hi Paul, Thanks for the reply. I don't hold an image, I'm hoping L Div did a commemorative Jubilee photo so I can pin him in an image from 1887/97. His collar number is 63L. I am looking at a Guy called Morton however I feel this chap was way too previous. I know 63L gave evidence in a case in 1889 but that's all I have. I'm aware I'm shooting in the dark here but I thought it worth a punt, you never know. Kind regards Monty

Hi Ladies and Gents, Ive a request for advice really and would be grateful for any help. Im trying to track any Victorian photos of Met Police Div L, Lambeth. Idealy and Jubilee shots of 87 or 97. If anyone knows of a definate location Id be very grateful. Also, Im trying to locate a Bobby from 1889 yet only have a collar number, does anyone fancy my chances of obtaining his name and warrant no? Many thanks for your time, Monty :)

Yes Mervyn, I noticed the way the Whistle was fixed. Very loose. Hi Rob, Some forces took photos of new boys for their records. Manchester, Portsmouth and I believe the City of London Forces did, as did the Met. LMA may also be an option. If you are interested in the joining up procedure, regulations etc, drop me a line. Monty :)

Hey Rob. Yep, Met alright. J Division is Bethnal Green. Do a google search on 'The friends of the Met police'. They will be able to help you find service records. Monty :)

OOhhhh, no idea. Pedley Street arches? Monty :)

Hi Mervyn, Erm, sorry to do this old chap, but its actually a photo of Sidney Street itself. At the junction with Redman Street. I think they are the only survining buildings from the time of the siege, which was 1910. Ive attached a photo of the section house on Mile End Road. The Highway was notorious. There the murders that occured there mid 1800s. It was a lawless area. Didnt know about the bodies though....creepy. The George Inn on Cambridge Heath Road is still there, Ive a photo somewhere. IDo you remember the odd looking Wickhams Department Store which would have been on your beat? That is still there also. f you wish, I can forward a series of photos to you privately which you may recognise from your beat. Take you back as it were, just let me know. Cheers Monty

Hi Mervyn, Apologies for my tardy reply. Many thanks for those images. Beautiful. Im off to the City Museum next week, Im looking forward to it immensely. Sidney Street does hold an interest for me. I have the plans of the property in Cutler Street plus the morgue photos of the deceased Policemen. My Co writer, Rob, is completely into that event and holds a lot more items than me. Sidney Street is near your beat? Maybe you can answer a question or two. Theres a section house next to Assembley Passage on the Mile End waste, is that correct? Also, another police building was situated a few yards away next to Stepney Green, just up from Cressy dwellings. Was that a section house also? You may recognise this photo. I was there in April.

[Hi Mervyn, Thank you for the warm welcome. Thanks to others who have welcomed me privately also. Hmmm, Watkins (who found one of Jacks victims) stated at inquest that I did not sound an alarm. We do not carry whistles. This indicates that the City boys did not carry whistles in 1888. I guess the search for confirmation contiues. You were in J Division huh? They dealt with the Nichols murder. Hanbury Street, or rather the side which no 29 once stood, has been swallowed up by the Trueman Brewery. The opposite side is pretty much as was. I envy that you managed to see the building before its demolition. Have you every watched 'The London nobody knows'? with James Mason? That has the yard in it, pretty much as you'd remember it I bet. Its available on You Tube to view. Druitt was described by one chief officer (Macnaghten) as a Doctor but he was infact a Barrister/Teacher. Now we do have a Dr Tumblety but I could bore you for hours over this one. Arrrgh, they burnt the Commercial St files? The swines. Were any saved? A similar thinghappened at Citys Snow Hill station. Don Rumbelow managed to rescue the infamous Mary Kelly photo plates from there. Good job he did else we would have lost them for good. Me? I am a researcher who has written many articles on the subject. I have recently completed a series of aritcles (along with my co writer Rob Clack) on the City PCs involved in the Kelly case, having managed to obtain their service records. Ive manged to ID the last person to speak to the 5th victim (Eddowes), PC George Hutt...he is my avtar and Im currently an advisor on an upcoming Jack doc being made for Channel 5, History Channel and eventually world wide distribution. Cheers Monty

Hello Folks, Firstly be gentle with me, this is my first post here and I apologise if my ettiquette isnt up to scratch. Its purely down to ignorance rather than offence. Secondly, I must send kudos to the organisers, admin and contributors to this site. It is truely fantastic to have found this extremely well informed site. My own Police collection is modest, cuffs, whistles, cape and trucheon however I am looking to expand. My interest is only just blooming, this site inspires. Thirdly I have a query. My interest in the History of Policing stems from an almost life long interest in the Whitechapel Murders of 1888. My knowledge of Policed history, equipment etc is pretty well founded (though no where near on your level) and Im fairly certain as to the answer to my query, which I hope you will be able to answer. Basically when were the City of London Police Bobbies issued with whistles? I know the Met had them some years previous to 88. I know City PC Watkins did not have one when he discovered one of the victims (Eddowes) and amongst my collection of photos, the City boys are pictured in their 1887 Jubilee photo without one. However Im not certain as to when they were issued. For some reason I have 1889 in my head, maybe something Ive read but cannot recall where. Any help would be gratefully received. Again, apologies if Ive posted in the wrong place, and many thanks in advance for your help. Gratefully yours Monty PS Attached is that 1887 Snow Hill image