Peter_Suciu

Here is my Belgian WWI Helmet:

I picked this up at SOS this year. It is a Bortfeld Model 1902 pattern naval style Tropenhelm, which was issued to naval landing parties and marine units such as the III. Seebatallion. The rear of this model features a unique fold up design. This example features the stamp: "WAARENHAUS F?R ARMEE UND MARINE."

It is an excellent book, but still doesn't offer much on the history of the British helmets from the Brodie to MkI to the MkII.

Very interesting information. Thank you for posting.

Fantastic collection! Thank you for posting close ups!

Very nice patches. Worth every penny I think!

I forgot to ask, but did you remove the chinscales to clean them? The results look very good. You managed to clean the corrosion without removing the patina. The results look very good.

I had wanted a nice Foreign Service Helmet for years, and in the space of three months I was able to buy two! This is a private purchase helmet, with doeskin as the covering.

No harm done. This stuff is very complicated, and as has been touched upon, very little has been written on the subject. They're actually the same shells. There was a tanker version too that uses the MkII style liner! The paratrooper chinstraps usually were a solid chin cup, but the dispatch rider had the leather head protection around the lower part of the wearer's head. Must have been damn hot!

The helmet is not dispatch rider. The dispatch rider didn't use a three-point chinstrap. This is the paratrooper style system: There were several different style of liners, and I think the example you posted is 1950s era. This is an example of the dispatch rider liner system:

Good points. And that is why I did weigh in about the American practices as well. The problem with all these helmets is that it is just too hard to say for sure. Too many of the parts were available for decades as surplus. Helmets were passed down. It is a unique piece none the less, and I would leave it as is for now. I see no reason to discard it either.

I can't tell from the photos either whether this is four of six seams. If this is four seams these are in a different location from the American cork helmets. Those seams were at the front and back and directly at the sides. However, looking at the liner and the location of the seams, this helmet is similar in shape to a French or Italian sun helmet! Finally, if it is British I would weigh in that it was common for American troops to transfer their Blue Cloth Helmet parts to their White Summer Helmets, despite regulations against doing such a thing. So I'm just throwing it out there that it is possible the soldier who owned this helmet may have started the process. Possible he transfered the plate and/or spike. The rest could have been added by someone trying to "complete" the helmet.

Good stuff Rick. Thank you. I am saving every bit of information I receive in a file, along with digital copies of the photo, and print outs in the helmet tin.

Excellent Web site Graham. I could spend hours looking at these photos! Fantastic!

And I believe it is staffed by former Guards too. The last time I was there in 2002... and there was an extremely elderly man working at the entrance, he claimed to have been a member of the Coldstream Guards. I respect my elders but thought about saying, "so you were them when they were founded?" I thought better of it.

It is on a book shelf with my British history books that cover the era. Sadly I don't have much room... and I have about 170 helmets!

The sources I have on American helmets describe them as being four panel helmets. This is why I brought it up. The thing is I have a four panel American helmet. It looks like the Scottish one for sale almost: The price was certainly much better. I just hate to see anyone pay that money if they're really buying an American helmet that is worth 1/10th the price!

I'm looking to see if any collectors have any unique British Foreign Service Helmets. I recently co-authored an article on these, but I came across a dealer who has two helmets that I believe have the characteristics of American, not British helmets. http://www.britishmilitaria.com/1_headdress.html Items #10 and #11 Most of the helmets that I've seen, which were undeniably British, were six panels. These two helmets are four panel, which is the American pattern. Any opinions? And has anyone ever seen a tartan pagri? I have looked in dozens of books, and have found no photographic evidence. Anything?

Does anyone collect pre-WWI sun or tropical helmets? I have a British, American and French one. I'm trying to find out more information about the Beligan, Portuguese and Italian ones. My research suggests that many of these were made in England using the English six patterns. Any information?

Helmet Tin: Sir Charles: Close up of the helmet:

This summer I bought this British Foreign Service Helmet. It came with the tin as well, which noted the owners name: Major C. Venables-Llewelyn of the Glamorgan Imperial Yeomanry. With help of my friend Stuart Bates, we were able to track down that this officer was Sir Charles Venables-Llewelyn. He was a territorial, or volunteer. He served in World War I, rising to the rank of Colonel. His eldest son died in the war as well in 1917. I did some digging and I found out that Sir Charles other son was actually a Brigadier in the First World War. Both Sir Charles and this son held the office of Lord-Lieutenant of Radnorshire, which has since been merged with the office of Lord-Lieutenant of Powys. Well, turns out the current Lord-Lieutenant is Sir John Venables-Llewleyn. I was able to contact Sir John, who was kind enough to send me a few photos. The helmet:

Thanks Peter. I'll let my friend respond. He just joined the forum today.

I'm helping a friend find some information on Welch wigs. Does anyone have any insight on these.

Chris-- Once again, a very nice collection!

Same with Soviet helmets. An SSh-40 dated prior to 1945 is worth $300+. A 1948 dated SSh-40 sells for about $30-50. They're completely the same, and there is no telling that a 1944 dated helmet even saw action or was issued. The Soviets produced so many shells, and many of those 1948 shells may have even been stamped out in 1944, just not issued until 1948! I would also add that the biggest thing is the lack of quality book on the subject. Chris Armold and Mark Reynosa really helped spark interest in the M1 helmets. The books chronicled the differences of the helmets, showed that there were different liners and covers to collect too. The thing about the British helmets is that they're all very much the same. I still think it is a collectible helmet, but compared to the pomp of the previous British helmets (such as the Foreign Service Helmet, Home Service, Cavalry helmets, etc.), the steel MkII is kind of plain. The British Army still does uniforms very well. But the combat gear is sort of drab!