Nick Charman

Agreed Mervyn -- very pleasing to see the newly added detail --- regret from my point of view I have nothing constructive to add -- but hope this does not "die" Thank you Gentlemen for your continued interest Nick Charman

Thank you very much for the prompt reply -- I will now get myself a copy -- and hope I will be able to get further information regarding my fathers service with the RIC. --- Nick

To 1314 I do apologise for the length of time it has taken me to make a reply. I thank you for your reference above to the RIC & AEC -- I regret my father never ever spoke about Ireland to me ( only how he loved the place and the people ) -- however once my Mother did say something about 3 major incidents -- all being ambushes -- and my father being wounded ( I thought twice ) --- these ambushes involved the deaths of very senior RIC Commanders -- and one My Father being the only Police Officer left alive ( although wounded ) --- I do not think she had any idea of areas or locations. I recently went to KEW to see what records they held on the RIC and was very dissappionted that they held almost nothing -- just name rank number Dob and religion. I would be very pleased to know if you could supply any further information -- regarding archives I could visit to gather any other information about him --- you are right he really did get about. Again my thanks Nick Charman

Nick to 1314 -- Yes 1314 I have seen today and replied today -- although I can't see my reply -- which was, I hope a direct PM sent just before lunch.

Mervyn We now know that 1314 is "the Man" -- Nick

Mervyn -- yes "Sir" I am indeed very fortunate -- I did not think there was the slightest chance of finding out anything at all -- so it beggers the question -- why on earth did I post it You are of course right about how young I am --- I regret however My father did not keep any of his HKP "stuff" at all -- knowing him he would have handed it all back to stores -- and kept the receipt ! I thank you very much for your thoughts Kindest regards, Nick Charman

To 1314 This reply ( albeit not as quickly as your response is entitled to /and or deserves ) is sent with my very very sincere thanks. As Mervyn quite rightly says in his reply " Nick is very fortunate indeed". Everything in your reply is one hundred percent accurate. that is everything I had any knowledge of -- which was only his DoB and DoD 1314 you have been so thorough it seems cherlish to ask this -- but if you allow me may I query the"China Coaster" -- the picture I was referring to was on dry land ( matbe a parade ground of sorts -- and guard to the Empress of Canada. I have already ordered the book. and will try to contact the Curator and view 5/104. Again my thanks -- I do truly appreciate your efforts on my behalf Nick Charman

Firstly may I thank you for both your replies:- My father joined the Hong Kong Police Force ( when pensioned off from the Royal Irish Constabulary, when Southern Ireland became a Repulic ) and was invalided out in 1935/36 His name was Arthur Ernest Charman and he wore a crown over three stripes ( if he had that rank in the Army -- I think he would be called a staff sargeant -- but in the HKPF I think he was called a Crown Sargeant ?) My understanding is that he joined at that rank ( as there was no lower rank for an englishman ) at that time. There is a photogragh in the entrance hall of the HKPF museum -- showing him as the "commander" and or "i.c." of the first anti piracy guard -- which was made up of white Russains and Indians -- its also a postcard in the museum souvenir pack of postcards. More than that I do not know any more regarding his service there -- I was born in Hong Kong in 1931. If you are able to find more information -- I would be very grateful. My thanks -- and kindest regards, Nick Arthur Mold Charman ( I was christened Nick -- was allowed in HK -- but not in England at that time -- have not meet any other Nicks to date )

Can I ask if anyone has any information regarding online records for the HKPF prior to 1941 -- do in fact any records exsist -- my understanding is that records in Hong Kong were destroyed by the Japanese -- and is it correct to say there is almost nothing held for that period of time in this country ?

Hi Chris I am not accomplished in many things, and one is the use of this site --- I did make a reply to you yesterday, and pressed the wrong button -- and can't find it, or any trace of it. However my answer went something like this :- 1) Memory and detailed remembering -- yes you are very right -- you did also miss out on the word embelish -- which can also creep in. 2) I am in my 79th year -- and regret that in fact my Father and I never talk to each other about WW1 or WW2 directly -- or about his history. My recollections come from being allowed to be with him when his Pals came to visit -- and talk to each other about "times passed". They were two sjts in the Battalion -- but to do with supply -- I think you will find that most of the front line men that jioned up with him in August 1914 did not make it. ( both were Town Clerks one in Hackney and one in Camberwell ) --- they talked of allsorts of things but very little about actual warfare. 3) I can remember talk of listening posts -- night patrols -- and a Brigidier that had an artificual leg that skweeked at night -- and three "actions" that stick in my mind 1) a landing from Royal Navy warships on the Belgium coast near Zebrugge -- they were rowed ashore in either cutters or actual lifeboats 2) Verdun -- my farther had a section / and or Platoon that were called "bombers" my understanding was their primary offensive weapon was the hand grenade( and they either had a strong right arm / or unless I am making this up -- a device to launch same ?? ) now I don't know of course what or if at all there are or were sewers in or under Verdun ( and what harm to the srtucture HG's would have cuased if used in that sort of space -- but it was for helping at Verdun that my memory says My Father was awarded his CdG ---- I hope this is not pure fantasy on my part --- but thats how I remember it ----- the third action I would only speak, of not put in writing. 4) You said you would like to have meet him -- yes. After ww1 he joined the Royal Irish Constabulary ( NOT A BLACK & TAN ) and was wounded twice before being pensioned off when the Republic was founded ( 3&sixpence a week for life - but increased with the cost of living ? ) -- He then joined the Honk Kong Police -- and formed the first anti piracy guard ( "white Russans & Indians (no not red ) ) -- if you enter the Hong Kong Police Museum in the entrance hall you will see him named and pictured with the first guard !) the only real story from this time was they escorted The Duke of York and Mrs Simpson ( on Douglas Fairbanks yacht ) through the South China Seas. I am sure this does not help -- but as you say -- if you take statements from three people who witnessed a crime you get five different versions of the same event. Again my thanks for yout thoughts I will keep taking the medicine Nick Charman

Thank you Gunner 1, May I apolgise for my lack of knowledge --- I must have got it totally wrong at "Kew" --- and I was sitting opposite him !!! Again thank you for the time and trouble you have taken to answer my question --- if you will allow me -- I will go through your many points above and put further queries and or questions to you? 1) LG lists medals "officially" awarded -- Q -- does that mean you have "turn up some where" and have it given to you --or "pinned on" --- and if this has not taken place " its not official ?? 2) I understand what you say -- and my Father never ever wore it - or really ever referred to it -- it is a newspaper cutting from the Croydon Advertiser ( dated some where arround November or December 1918 -- and given to me by one of my fathers sisters -- that really sparked off this quest, and yes I do not always beleive what I see in newspapers. 3) I understand ---- the various points you make -- and I think also most villages and towns on the Western Front that were blown to pieces were also given the CdG -- Like Malta and the GC Again my thanks -- I am learning, Kind regards Nick Charman

Thank you Gunner 1 -- can i ask a stupid question -- does the LG post entries for French decorations -- I was told a "KEW" -- they did not -- so my stupid question is " does the LD post entries for any CdG awards to recipiants outside France -- and have you seen any at all ?? thank you for your interest Kindest regards, Nick Charman

THANK YOU YES YOU ARE RIGHT -- IT BOUNCED BACK WITHOUT THE "E" -- I DID CORRECT AND SEND AGAIN -- AND AGAIN pAUL kEATING HAS BEEN EXTREMELY HELPFUL Kindest regards Nick Charman

P Keating, Yet again my thanks to you, may I answer you as follows:- 1) Thank youn for all the information regarding PM me -- will action much later in the day -- again thanks 2) The French translation --- may I ask you to read below before you do any thing - Please I am not completely with it -- I said originally in my posting on this site that I had not received a reply to my December email -- regret not true -- when I checked further -- I had -- and so I sent the email below -- also shows it date and time, as always. I will answer more fully later in the day -- but wanted to make certain you new -- my error quickly. ---------- Original Message ---------- From: "nicola@pdimplementations.co.uk" <nicola@pdimplementations.co.uk> To: bcaam-pau@dsn.sga.defnse.gouv.fr Date: 14 January 2010 at 15:41 Subject: Can I ask -- how to find out if my Father was awarded the Croix de Guerre in WW1 To:- The Bureau Cenral D'archives, Administratives Militaires, Caserne Bernadotte, 64023 Pau To whom it may concern. Please may I ask for your help --- I am sorry I do not speak French, therefore my email will be written in english --- I was given your address by Nadine Bonnefoi at the Direction de la memoire, du patrimoine et des archives, 14 rue Saint-Dominique, 00450, ARMEES. I beleive that My Father was awarded the Crox de Guerre in the First World War, he was in the British Army, his regiment was the 21st County of London - 1st Surrey Rifle Brigade - which was part of the 47th Division-- which fought in france from 1915 until the end of that war. His name was Arthur Ernest Charman and his Army number was 2019, he was a private soldier in 1915 -- and was a Company Sergeant Major in 1918, so at Verdun he might have been a Sergeant, my understanding is that he was in command of a platoon ( about 20 soldiers from his regiment) who were called "bombers" ( they fought by throwing hand granades) and this was in the sewers (underground) at Verdun. My Father was attached to / or seconded to /the French Army and fought the German Army in Verdun? I am not certain in which year but the battles were fought at Verdun ? but this is when he was given his award. Can you tell me if I can research online -- or is there an address I can write to ?? I would be pleased to receive any help you are able to give me May I thank you in anticipation of your help and advice Kindest regards, Nick A M Charman