nzef1940

Tony

You are correct NZ SWB issue numbers do not equate to service numbers.

Greetings all

This is either a strange fake (one that I have not seen before) or a 30's German made example??

Help please, It is from an old New Zealand collection.

Thanks in advance.

Thanks chaps.

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Greetings all

I would appreciate educated thoughts on this badge please as I am told the hook may be a replacement?

These are the only two images I have at present.

Thanks in advance

Thank you, much appreciated.

Fantastic! Many thanks.

Any idea in where this div was deployed 1914-18?

Thanks, here is another image.

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Dog tag?

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http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2012/post-11079-0-24004200-1353759271.jpg-----

I was lucky to aquire this group some time ago, I have always wondered about the 'supposed brass dogtag' is it a dog tag or something else and what is written on it?

The group was a New Zealand WW1 veteran bringback.

Enjoy the images and please help re the dogtag query.

Thanks in advance.

Yeah good, those first images on WAF were the sellers photos, he had taken them with the bar upside down...I thought that was fairly obvious if you read the thread.

I am done.

'Comms out'

But Gentlemen, I have a question -

What are we talking about here!?! In case no one has noticed, the bar presented here (post #2) is mounted in the frak,

or reverse, form. The bar originally presented on the WAF in the thread titled "Imperial Group of Five - help please"

(post #1) is mounted in the standard (left to right) form. That does it. :speechless:

Markus

I am having doubts now, but it was so cheap and the New Zealand source has supplied me with loads on unmessed with vet bought back items.

Anyway you are fairly convincing and I have an offer to trade it for a local vet bought back WW1 camo M16 helmet, so i may offload it.

What value estimate do you place on the bar?

Well said, I apologise.

it sure would be nice if everyone would please try to remain civil and mature with the comments...this informative and interesting thread is on the verge of being ruined

Carfeul Markus

I may take you up on that! I have been to Germany a few times 1989, 95 and 98. I love it. Berlin is my favourite European city.

I lived in london for 6 years and spent a lot of time travelling around Europe, Germany is a great place.

Forget the church though, I am a non believer.

All the best.

Mike

Yes, i know how insulting it is in your eyes, but every serious collector has to show up upgraded/faked items. It would be irresponsible to let someone "believe" this cross would be original in all parts.

Funny coincidence, the prussian crown order 4th and 3rd class is at the moment the center piece of interest for comming publications at the german phaleristic society, and if have seen enough ......

If you come to Germany, we can meet in my cabinet and have a look through the microscope ....

Or we can visit a church and believe.

Regards

Markus

Sorry to hurt your feelings Sweety.

Please re-read your postings and ask you the same. As the youngest who commented here as there I feel offended by your highly ironical postings, and especialy about your thoughts on others age.

It's not about age. It's about a disputable order an its owner who has to much faith in it.

Here's the thread from WAF, for those who are interrested in it: http://www.wehrmacht...ad.php?t=489432

What is a Spangenstueck?

Do you realise how insulting that comment is?

Warning to all members: dont believe the story, that the KO4X shown above is an original, cross and swords were married some decades later.

Collecting is not the same as religion, not a question of believing or not.

Regards

Markus

Good point, thanks.

Awards without a China, Southwest-Africa, or Colonial Commemorative medal were possible - Von Mueller (Emden) got the Red Eagle 4th with swords for an action against Chinese Artillery prior to WW1 (no other campaign medal).

"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_von_M%C3%BCller" Von Müller was given command of the SMS Emden in the Spring of 1913. Soon he achieved fame and notoriety in both the German and other imperial powers' newspapers for initiative and skill in shelling rebellious forts along the Yangtze at Nanjing (or Nanking). He was awarded the Order of the Royal Crown Third Class with Swords. (I am not sure this is correct - I read Red Eagle 4th with swords). Cheers Captain Albert

Thank you for your intelligent, objective and well reasoned analysis, which is the reason I posted the group here.

The previous forum had many comments that appeared to be quoted straight from textbooks, which I find boorish as nothing is black and white.

And perhaps English not being a first language to some forum members can lead to a misunderstanding of subtle points.

When the Jeweller said integral, he meant not added later or solderd etc etc, but I am not going to revisit that point.

I see we have some of the same members of the other Forum present here, who appear to be a bit young? Perhaps wanting to be proven right all the time?

Anyhow I am happy .

At the end of the day the group was cheap as chips also

Alll the best.

Mike

Hello again Mike:

I must add that the swords on this piece appear to be cast and not die-struck (without direct inspection however there is no way to be 100% certain). These swords are definately NOT integral to the cross body. On original pieces, they were added to the cross body by the utilization of threaded screw posts. On this piece, they may be screwed in place, but this is unlikely. On the identical piece that I owned they were definately soldered into place.

Best regards

Thanks, all I can say is what the Jeweller has told me after inspection, that it is not soldered on etc and part of the original medal, I dont know what else to say here?

Also as stated this is an indirect vet purchase, NZ troops ended WW2 in Northern Italy (Trieste) Many crossed the border to Austria etc, I believe this is where the bar comes from.

Anyway, interesting commenst, thanks.

Hello again Mike:

I must add that the swords on this piece appear to be cast and not die-struck (without direct inspection however there is no way to be 100% certain). These swords are definately NOT integral to the cross body. On original pieces, they were added to the cross body by the utilization of threaded screw posts. On this piece, they may be screwed in place, but this is unlikely. On the identical piece that I owned they were definately soldered into place.

Best regards

Dont forget, I have said this is not an issued cross, bit a later private purchase example .Also I would like to hear from an expert in the field if possible.. How many firms made this cross? so why compare it to a single example? Common sense please.